Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

[drdel]

New Zealand is completely different sociologically, and spatially. It is not an international transit or trade hub and so the type of economic activity and resultant level of interactions and commuting patterns are vastly different.

Comparing Covid data with the UK, like other international 'league' tables, are best left to simplistic journalists to use a clickbait.

 

[Fade and Die]

Its exactly that, an opinion piece with few facts. But its the facts, what few there are, that are worth a look. For example, it states there’s only 200 ICU beds. The NZ Medical Journal comes up with a different number. Including isolation rooms within ICU, and the number of critical care ventilators available, the number of beds exceeds 500. Now that’s a big discrepancy…

And the fact that the piece doesn’t get the number of beds anything like right brings into question the credibility of the opinion. My guess is the (what is just) an opinion piece suits your narrative. At least research the bits in it that are expressed as facts, or maybe you’re being narrow minded.

Being a bit selective yourself there with the NZ medical journal aren’t you?

“176 staffed ICU beds in 25 ICUs in 24 public hospitals of which 15 were dedicated paediatric ICU beds”

But when they bundle together the maximum amount of beds that could possibly be used (not staffed btw) you get to your 500.

https://journal.nzma.org.nz/journal...-icu-bed-capacity-and-covid-19-surge-capacity

 

[Foxholer]

...
As a result of their willingness to act, they have a per capita death rate 99.5% lower than the UK. And their economy is recovering faster too!

My big fear for them is that the Omicron variant will nullify the strategy that worked very well with previous variants. That might actually be a (relatively) good thing!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

What I don’t understand why there is so much anomisty to how New Zealand coped and dealt with the pandemic? Just why does it bother someone sat in the UK? There’s no need to compare them to any other Country and how they do, this, that or whatever or their location etc, it’s up to them and their people to decide at the next if they have done the right thing.

Personally I say good luck to them, but it certainly comes across on here as some will be looking to rejoice or say “I told you so” if in the future they lost hundreds or even thousands to Covid and at that thought I despair!

 

[Hobbit]

Being a bit selective yourself there with the NZ medical journal aren’t you?

“176 staffed ICU beds in 25 ICUs in 24 public hospitals of which 15 were dedicated paediatric ICU beds”

But when they bundle together the maximum amount of beds that could possibly be used (not staffed btw) you get to your 500.

https://journal.nzma.org.nz/journal...-icu-bed-capacity-and-covid-19-surge-capacity

And what do you think the real number of staffed beds is in any country in the world, the emphasis on staffed? And I only included those within ICU areas. There are other critical care, ventilated beds in hospitals, e.g. CICU/HDU. But of course, you know all this…

 

[Hobbit]

What I don’t understand why there is so much anomisty to how New Zealand coped and dealt with the pandemic? Just why does it bother someone sat in the UK? There’s no need to compare them to any other Country and how they do, this, that or whatever or their location etc, it’s up to them and their people to decide at the next if they have done the right thing.

Personally I say good luck to them, but it certainly comes across on here as some will be looking to rejoice or say “I told you so” if in the future they lost hundreds or even thousands to Covid and at that thought I despair!

It’s a different strategy Paul. Getting as many of the people vaccinated before they open up what would be very fertile ground for the virus. And of course, some people have been told by Karen…

 

[Foxholer]

...NZ Residents in other countries apart from Australia still aren't allowed to enter!

I don't believe that's correct! Though they'll have to isolate in MIQ for 14 days on entry.
Got a link to an authoritative org that states that?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

It’s a different strategy Paul. Getting as many of the people vaccinated before they open up what would be very fertile ground for the virus. And of course, some people have been told by Karen…

I understand what they are doing, I just wonder why some seem to care so much about another Countries strategy to get to the point of seemingly hating it’s pm.

 

[DanFST]

I don't believe that's correct! Though they'll have to isolate in MIQ for 14 days on entry.
Got a link to an authoritative org that states that?

"We recognise that not all New Zealanders who want to return home at the moment are able to do so. New Zealanders who cannot return home for the time being should take steps to stay safely where they are until they are able to return." 3rd paragraph.

Should be no reason for confusion. They take decisive action based on the precautionary principle. They don't know the longer term effects of Omicron, although you think you do.

As a result of their willingness to act, they have a per capita death rate 99.5% lower than the UK. And their economy is recovering faster too!

No need to be condescending. I don't know the long term effects of Covid, same as you. However with Omicron being as infectious as it is, i'm a realist. You cannot lock yourself away forever. Residents being unable to return home is a joke.

It's great they have such a low death rate. However they don't exactly have the busiest hub airport in Europe, Geographically they were always going to do better.

 

[Ethan]

"We recognise that not all New Zealanders who want to return home at the moment are able to do so. New Zealanders who cannot return home for the time being should take steps to stay safely where they are until they are able to return." 3rd paragraph.

No need to be condescending. I don't know the long term effects of Covid, same as you. However with Omicron being as infectious as it is, i'm a realist. You cannot lock yourself away forever. Residents being unable to return home is a joke.

It's great they have such a low death rate. However they don't exactly have the busiest hub airport in Europe, Geographically they were always going to do better.

I think it is rather dismissive and reckless to blithely say that Omicron is like a cold for 99%. That makes some big assumptions, as well as paying no regard to other variants which are bubbling around. The fact that we don't know the long term effects is the reason for caution.

And again, you do the 'lock away forever' thing. Can you tell me who wants people locked away forever or how long you think forever is?

Maybe NZ was always going to do better, but the enormity of how better they have done (99.5% lower death rate over capita is a lot lot better) is largely down to policy and leadership not geography. Same as why Norway and Finland, Sweden's culturally, geographically and demographically similar neighbours did so much better than Sweden. As for the travel hub, the pandemic meant that London was not an international travel hub any more, there wasn't much traffic going on at Heathrow during the pandemic. Down 88% in summer 2020.

 

[Foxholer]

"We recognise that not all New Zealanders who want to return home at the moment are able to do so. New Zealanders who cannot return home for the time being should take steps to stay safely where they are until they are able to return." 3rd paragraph.
...

So you have interpreted that 'cannot' as 'not allowed'. Have you considered a job at the Daily Mail or Sun?
FWIW. All that's required is a voucher for MIQ. And if the returner is staying for 180 days or longer, there's no charge. So those who are genuinely returning are fine; those merely visiting are being treated as tourists. Seems perfectly fair to me! Though obviously, and sadly, could cause problems for some cases such as 'last chance to see' ones, or for funerals, such as I had - twice.

Btw. Are you or someone close to you actually an NZ citizen? Or are you simply commenting as an 'outsider'?

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Omicron is a game changer from a society basis(edit with vaccines, treatments and infections of course), not read this thread for a while now as a result, life in the world is hopefully turning a better chapter.

My wife and I, had always looked at the 1 in x cases get hospitalised and said if the figures had got to 1 in 200ish for our age range, that we would basically return to normal(with less going out etc). Have to admit I have a very uneasy feeling about it as both mum/wife have multiple underlying conditions.

Originally pre vaccines, for 50-59 I think it was about 1 in 10-15ish cases got hospitalised, 2 doses with delta meant 1 in 100ish cases hospitalised, now with 3 doses & omicron its well over 1 in 200(in theory less 1 in 300 are hospitalised from cases). Not sure if anyone has followed these figures, but they are given in the PHE vaccine report released yesterday(the figures are below and they are similar to the one before and from other countries such as denmark, france, usa tbh). I havent bothered allowing for lag or clearly linking or anything else, but gives some real rough figures, which is good enough for my purposes.

Heres the basic figures for the 1 in X hospitalised figures, thought I would stick them up, for context(edit just noticed I labelled the last column wrong it should be Anybody, so is an average for all cases/hospitals from unvacc to 3 dose):-

Take care everyone and hopefully this will be my last post on the thread.

 

[drdel]

I think it is rather dismissive and reckless to blithely say that Omicron is like a cold for 99%. That makes some big assumptions, as well as paying no regard to other variants which are bubbling around. The fact that we don't know the long term effects is the reason for caution.

And again, you do the 'lock away forever' thing. Can you tell me who wants people locked away forever or how long you think forever is?

Maybe NZ was always going to do better, but the enormity of how better they have done (99.5% lower death rate over capita is a lot lot better) is largely down to policy and leadership not geography. Same as why Norway and Finland, Sweden's culturally, geographically and demographically similar neighbours did so much better than Sweden. As for the travel hub, the pandemic meant that London was not an international travel hub any more, there wasn't much traffic going on at Heathrow during the pandemic. Down 88% in summer 2020.

C'mon more than the population of NZ commute around London daily even during Covid! Contesting you on "...policy and leadership..." is just arguing politics and it ain't right either

 

[Foxholer]

C'mon more than the population of NZ commute around London daily even during Covid! Contesting you on "...policy and leadership..." is just arguing politics and it ain't right either

So what!
What's your reasoning as to why they've so successful? And do you think it can continue?
I'm certainly nervous for them with their current number of daily infections, but it it's Omicron, then maybe death count will be small.
And while there's a number of anti-vaxers (and anti- lots) protesting, the vast majority are prepared to suffer some restrictions for the general good - being generally no-nonsense, realistic and sensible.

 

[Ethan]

C'mon more than the population of NZ commute around London daily even during Covid! Contesting you on "...policy and leadership..." is just arguing politics and it ain't right either

But that is irrelevant. Transmissibility is not greater in larger populations per se. Cities in NZ have a high population density. The top half of Scotland has a low density.

The fact is that NZ acted faster and harder and it paid off big time. You can argue that this would not have been possible in the UK, but you can't really argue that it was not he cause of the vastly superior outcomes.

As I said above, there was a natural experiment in the Nordics. Norway, Sweden and Finland all have very similar populations, demographics, climate and culture, and open borders. Norway and Finland each had at least a 5 fold lower death rate than Sweden. The only real difference was the public health policy.

 

[larmen]

Still positive. I guess I am not testing myself free before the time is up then.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Well daughter is still positive but still full of beans , wife suffering a little but

Yet I’m still negative and ?no symptoms

I’m still expecting it soon

 

[road2ruin]

Well daughter is still positive but still full of beans , wife suffering a little but

Yet I’m still negative and ?no symptoms

I’m still expecting it soon

For our daughter it was like a 24hr bug. She’s been absolutely fine since waking up on Wednesday morning and it’s now a nightmare trying to keep her entertained.

We’re both still negative and we’re keeping everything crossed that she tests negative tomorrow and Sunday so we can get her back into school on Monday!!

 

[chellie]

Well daughter is still positive but still full of beans , wife suffering a little but

Yet I’m still negative and ?no symptoms

I’m still expecting it soon

It seems to be like sickness and the squirts. Can go through a whole family or not.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

For our daughter it was like a 24hr bug. She’s been absolutely fine since waking up on Wednesday morning and it’s now a nightmare trying to keep her entertained.

We’re both still negative and we’re keeping everything crossed that she tests negative tomorrow and Sunday so we can get her back into school on Monday!!

Today was day 5 for the daughter so going to have to hope she is negative tomorrow but not hopefully and she is full of snot ??

It seems to be like sickness and the squirts. Can go through a whole family or not.

Yeah some seem to have it go through the whole family or it just stays at one.

I think I have avoided it the whole time so I’m just expecting to to arrive tonight ?