Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

[bobmac]

April last year?

Incredibly ironic that you’ve picked a fake news story to highlight the issue of fake news.

My point was people read lies on social media and without fact checking them, use them to base their decision on whether or not to have the vaccine.
They also retweet the lies so more read it.

 

[Ethan]

Almost 7 Billion doses of the vaccines have been given worldwide.
I think if it had any serious side affects, we would have heard by now.

There are some serious side effects, but they are rare. The benefit-risk profile of the vaccines is much much better than we could have reasonably hoped for, on both sides of that equation - benefit is excellent, and the safety profile is remarkably benign. There were a bunch of theoretical concerns floated at the start of vaccine development and hardly any have been seen.

 

[bluewolf]

The imaginary side effects are the worst. The people afraid of ghosts should be concerned about suffocating to death or having an endo-tracheal tube shoved down their neck to put them on a ventilator, not to mention the possibility of renal or liver damage that could necessitate dialysis or a transplant sometime in the future. In contrast to some of their fears, those risks are real.

People have no idea about evaluating different risks.

Ok, I fully agree with your statement. As I’ve said several times, I think that Anti-Vaxxers are wrong. However, I can understand why some groups are hesitant.

All that said, as the only actual expert on this thread, would you say that there is zero possibility of an unforeseen side effect, no matter how small, appearing at some future point?

 

[bluewolf]

My point was people read lies on social media and without fact checking them, use them to base their decision on whether or not to have the vaccine.
They also retweet the lies so more read it.

Yes, I know. And you proved it beautifully by posting a piece of absolute nonsense just because it looked like it agreed with your existing viewpoint ?

 

[larmen]

The term side effect seems overused, in my opinion. A sore arm isn’t a side effect. A headache or a fever maybe. But the number of side effects seems totally overstated.

 

[bobmac]

Yes, I know. And you proved it beautifully by posting a piece of absolute nonsense just because it looked like it agreed with your existing viewpoint ?

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.
Are you saying that I shouldn't post an example of lies that shows how some people use those lies to decide not to take the vaccine?

 

[bluewolf]

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.
Are you saying that I shouldn't post an example of lies that shows how some people use those lies to decide not to take the vaccine?

Ok bud. You spin it however you want ?

Just to confirm though. Which parts of the Elisa Granato story do you think are lies?

 

[Ethan]

Ok, I fully agree with your statement. As I’ve said several times, I think that Anti-Vaxxers are wrong. However, I can understand why some groups are hesitant.

All that said, as the only actual expert on this thread, would you say that there is zero possibility of an unforeseen side effect, no matter how small, appearing at some future point?

Obviously not, as I said a page or two above, you can never prove a negative. It is also difficult to be sure that an event which occurs after vaccination is due to the vaccination unless it is pretty characteristic, for example anaphylaxis immediately after injection. Take Guillain-Barre Syndrome, a rare neurological condition. It has been reported, and is probably caused by, vaccination (die to creation of antibodies which get misdirected. But GBS also occurs in people who have not been vaccinated, so in any specific case, you can't be sure what the cause is.

That is why safety assessment is done using benefit-risk judgements, which can be different for different ages, illness populations and other categories. The debate about whether the vax is useful for teenagers is marginal - most doctors would say it is fairly well settled, but for adults of almost any age, it is a no-brainer, and for older people and those with other risk factors, including pregnancy, it should be a necessity.

The other thing is that the vaccine only stays in the body for a short time, but kicks off the immune system during that time. Most of the stuff that happens is then down to your immune system, and it isn't "carrying" bits of vaccine with it. That is very different from a chronically administered treatment such as daily tablets which can accumulate and which are active in the body pretty much all the time.

 

[Ethan]

The term side effect seems overused, in my opinion. A sore arm isn’t a side effect. A headache or a fever maybe. But the number of side effects seems totally overstated.

In clinical trials we normally say adverse event, which is any unwanted effect. If someone gets a vax and then is run over by a bus outside the vax centre, that is a (very) adverse event. These events are then categorised by severity, seriousness (which is not the same thing, a serious event may not be severe and vice-versa) and also are determined to be related or not related to the medicine. The bus thing would be serious (because it results I hospitalisation or death), severe and unrelated (except if thought the vax had caused impaired sight or hearing, or caused dizziness which contributed to the accident. a sore arm is an adverse event, related to the vax (because the injection is part of the vax), almost always non-serious and rarely severe. The rate of sore arm in the placebo group is pretty similar.

 

[bluewolf]

Obviously not, as I said a page or two above, you can never prove a negative. It is also difficult to be sure that an event which occurs after vaccination is due to the vaccination unless it is pretty characteristic, for example anaphylaxis immediately after injection. Take Guillain-Barre Syndrome, a rare neurological condition. It has been reported, and is probably caused by, vaccination (die to creation of antibodies which get misdirected. But GBS also occurs in people who have not been vaccinated, so in any specific case, you can't be sure what the cause is.

That is why safety assessment is done using benefit-risk judgements, which can be different for different ages, illness populations and other categories. The debate about whether the vax is useful for teenagers is marginal - most doctors would say it is fairly well settled, but for adults of almost any age, it is a no-brainer, and for older people and those with other risk factors, including pregnancy, it should be a necessity.

The other thing is that the vaccine only stays in the body for a short time, but kicks off the immune system during that time. Most of the stuff that happens is then down to your immune system, and it isn't "carrying" bits of vaccine with it. That is very different from a chronically administered treatment such as daily tablets which can accumulate and which are active in the body pretty much all the time.

Thank you ?

So, if there is a very small chance of unforeseen side effects, then we can all probably understand why some are hesitant. They’re wrong IMO, but we can probably understand.

 

[bobmac]

Ok bud. You spin it however you want ?

Just to confirm though. Which parts of the Elisa Granato story do you think are lies?

The tweet that said she died a few days after getting the vaccine was confirmed false by Elisa a few days later

 

[bluewolf]

The tweet that said she died a few days after getting the vaccine was confirmed false by Elisa a few days later

The whole story is false. Every bit of it.
Do you think that people were getting the vaccine in April 2020?
Elisa is a molecular microbiologist at Oxford University.
It’s all false. Every bit of it…

 

[bobmac]

The whole story is false. Every bit of it.
Do you think that people were getting the vaccine in April 2020?
Elisa is a molecular microbiologist at Oxford University.
It’s all false. Every bit of it…

Wow, they certainly fooled me.
Can you give us a link so I can read how I was fooled so easily please

 

[bluewolf]

Wow, they certainly fooled me.
Can you give us a link so I can read how I was fooled so easily please

Nope. Where’s the fun in that?

Anyway, now that Ethan has confirmed that there is a (admittedly) very small chance of unforeseen side effects at a later date, can you understand why some people may be hesitant about the vaccine?

 

[Tashyboy]

My point was people read lies on social media and without fact checking them, use them to base their decision on whether or not to have the vaccine.
They also retweet the lies so more read it.

I think the sad thing about that statement is that it is so true. The ignorance of some people is astonishing. It was reading such fake news stories on facebook that led me to a “ cull” of friends. The ironic thing is that most of the Fake news is depressing, negative and sad. You never hear fake news where the average size of a man’s pecker has grown or anything positive. These people are “ energy vampires”. Unfortunately Covid is a topic where the ignorant energy vampires are revelling in spreading negative lies.

 

[bobmac]

Nope. Where’s the fun in that?

I thought not.

Anyway, now that Ethan has confirmed that there is a (admittedly) very small chance of unforeseen side effects at a later date, can you understand why some people may be hesitant about the vaccine?

And yet they are still happy to take aspirin which may also have unforeseen side effects.
That's the problem with side effects that are unforeseen, no-one knows what they are or if they exist at all.
What we do know is the general consensus among scientists all over the world for the last 10-11 months is ''TAKE THE VACCINE''

 

[Ethan]

Thank you ?

So, if there is a very small chance of unforeseen side effects, then we can all probably understand why some are hesitant. They’re wrong IMO, but we can probably understand.

No, not really. There is small risk of dying every time you get in a car, take an aspirin, cross the road or even walk in a public area. There is a larger risk of dying from Covid for most adults. The fear of the vaccine is irrational because it is grossly disproportionate to the risk. People should be allowed not to have it, but they should not be allowed to pose an unnecessary risk to others as a result, nor, arguably, consume excess and unnecessary healthcare resources, thus displacing someone else from using them.

 

[Ethan]

The whole story is false. Every bit of it.
Do you think that people were getting the vaccine in April 2020?
Elisa is a molecular microbiologist at Oxford University.
It’s all false. Every bit of it…

More importantly, it was deliberately propagated with malicious intent, as are the false posts about vaccine side effects posted to the US CDC VAERS system, and many other attempts to damage public confidence.

 

[Foxholer]

The whole story is false. Every bit of it.
Do you think that people were getting the vaccine in April 2020?
Elisa is a molecular microbiologist at Oxford University.
It’s all false. Every bit of it…

H'mm...Not 'every bit of it' imo!
You should check out these (reliable/normally reliable) sources! My memory concurs, but is not always rlelible!
https://fullfact.org/online/elisa-granato-fake/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisa_Granato
Trials of the Oxford vaccine were certainly under way in April 2020...https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-04-23-oxford-covid-19-vaccine-begins-human-trial-stage

 

[Voyager EMH]

Went for my booster jab yesterday with Mrs V and her brother.
After sitting and waiting for a while, I realised my posture was poor so I "straightened-up" in my chair. BANG! Hit my head on something.
It was a metal suggestion box. I uttered a few suggestions as I hope you can imagine.
Had a flu jab as well. Felt nowt!