Comp rounds to enter “majors”

[Lucifer MorningStar]

The link in post #109 spells it out.

Nope! It really doesn’t!

It’s not a club competition so doesn’t fall under that set of rules.

It’s not compulsory from what I can see to submit a GP score when playing a friendly swindle.

General guidance states it’s encourage but not always required for general play and if the club has no specific rule on it then none of my questions have been answered.

Based on that still seems a huge leap to accuse someone of falsifying a handicap based on a swindle between friends.

 

[rulefan]

Why doesn’t it ?

I ask again - if they have a handicap, why?

What is the purpose of having a handicap?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I ask again - if they have a handicap, why?

Why what ?

Do you think there is a difference between people playing social golf and a member run swindle

And club organised competitions

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

I’ll happily admit where I’m wrong Appendix A does mention : where applicable players must “ensure all acceptable scores are submitted for handicap purposes in order to provide reasonable evidence of their demonstrated ability “

So in that regard I have it wrong and Rulefan is spot on .

But personal opinion I don’t agree it’s falsifying handicaps or gives anyone a right to accuse people of banditry if you play in a friendly swindle with your mates and play handicaps decided between yourselves.

Seems a very grey area in that most people will only play for fun each week with pals in these things and are effectively forced to enter a GP card everytime.

Still every days a school day

 

[rulefan]

Nope! It really doesn’t!

It’s not a club competition so doesn’t fall under that set of rules.

It’s not compulsory from what I can see to submit a GP score when playing a friendly swindle.

General guidance states it’s encourage but not always required for general play and if the club has no specific rule on it then none of my questions have been answered.

Based on that still seems a huge leap to accuse someone of falsifying a handicap based on a swindle between friends.

How does this not apply - i. an acceptable score from an authorized format of play within a player’s home jurisdiction must be submitted for handicap purposes.
What 'general guidance'?

Incidentally Jurisdiction does not mean a club.
The geographic territory in which an Authorized Association administers the Rules of Handicapping.

 

[Imurg]

My take....
WHS needs cards in order to work properly...lots of cards....as many as possible..
Enter a card almost every time you play and your handicap will be a true reflection of your form .
The trouble is that many players don't put in a card almost every time they play either because they simply don't want to or they're playing a social knockabout or playing matchplay or swindles with gimmees etc etc..
England Golf want us to put in cards, many are not putting enough in so many handicaps are inaccurate
EG , effectively, want us to change the way we've played our golf for the last God knows how many years in order for their new handicap system to work.
They've failed to persuade a significant number that this is the way to go.
Right now WHS isn't performing as it should due to the number of rounds being played that aren't being entered.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

How does this not apply - i. an acceptable score from an authorized format of play within a player’s home jurisdiction must be submitted for handicap purposes.
What 'general guidance'?

Incidentally Jurisdiction does not mean a club.
The geographic territory in which an Authorized Association administers the Rules of Handicapping.

What if the social golf people play consists of gimmies and pick and place everywhere etc

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

How does this not apply - i. an acceptable score from an authorized format of play within a player’s home jurisdiction must be submitted for handicap purposes.
What 'general guidance'?

Incidentally Jurisdiction does not mean a club.
The geographic territory in which an Authorized Association administers the Rules of Handicapping.

Thank you for shouting at me in bold

See my subsequent post where I said you were right! But lets gloss over that shall we

 

[rulefan]

The following taken from the CONGU manual may be relevant.

The UHS is based on the following fundamental premises:
• every player will endeavour to make the best score he can at each hole in every qualifying round he plays and will report all such rounds for handicap purposes;
• every golf club or handicapping authority will, whenever possible run stroke play competitions as qualifying competitions, calculate a Competition Scratch Score and make all handicap adjustments strictly in accordance with the system; and
• every player will return a sufficient number of qualifying scores to provide reasonable evidence of his current ability.
It is against the spirit and intent of the system to adjust the Terms of Competition deliberately, so that it is rendered non-qualifying on a technicality.

Supplementary Score were well established by this time.

 

[rulefan]

Thank you for shouting at me in bold

See my subsequent post where I said you were right! But lets gloss over that shall we

Sorry. I didn't mean to shout. I simply cut and pasted from the manual where it simply means the emboldened words are defined elsewhere.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

The following taken from the CONGU manual may be relevant.

The UHS is based on the following fundamental premises:
• every player will endeavour to make the best score he can at each hole in every qualifying round he plays and will report all such rounds for handicap purposes;
• every golf club or handicapping authority will, whenever possible run stroke play competitions as qualifying competitions, calculate a Competition Scratch Score and make all handicap adjustments strictly in accordance with the system; and
• every player will return a sufficient number of qualifying scores to provide reasonable evidence of his current ability.
It is against the spirit and intent of the system to adjust the Terms of Competition deliberately, so that it is rendered non-qualifying on a technicality.

Supplementary Score were well established by this time.

“Qualifying round”

So players are ok to play their social golf as they see fit then

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

Sorry. I didn't mean to shout. I simply cut and pasted from the manual where it simply means the emboldened words are defined elsewhere.

No need to apologise I’m really not a sensitive ass person and couldn’t care less about that

My only suggestion would be read all the posts before shouting next time

Like I said I’d agreed you were right. But I don’t agree with the system if that’s how it’s set up. It takes the fun away from social golf and means if people want to play a friendly swindle with pick ups etc they can no longer do that without submitting cards so will then turn to other forms away from submission of GP cards every time seems a big flaw in the system to me.

Especially the line that say:

It is against the spirit and intent of the system to adjust the Terms of Competition deliberately, so that it is rendered non-qualifying on a technicality.

That to me then takes away the spirit of the game and the fun between mates just having a knock in the old skool swindle formats.

 

[jim8flog]

Oh dear. So their handicaps are not genuine as per the Rules of Handicapping.
How much attention do they pay to the Rules of Golf? Or for that matter how much does the club concern itself with either?

So if a person is not putting in GP cards how does that make their handicap ' not genuine'.

Does this mean to have a genuine handicap we all have to put in GP cards?

 

[rulefan]

No need to apologise I’m really not a sensitive as as person and couldn’t care less about that

My only suggestion would be read all the posts before shouting next time

Like I said I’d agreed you were right. But I don’t agree with the system if that’s how it’s set up. It takes the fun away from social golf and means if people want to play a friendly swindle with pick ups etc they can no longer do that without submitting cards so will then turn to other forms away from submission of GP cards every time seems a big flaw in the system to me.

Especially the line that say:

It is against the spirit and intent of the system to adjust the Terms of Competition deliberately, so that it is rendered non-qualifying on a technicality.

That to me then takes away the spirit of the game and the fun between mates just having a knock in the old skool swindle formats.

I thought the term 'swindle' or 'fiddle' implied that some significant(?) RoG were 'flexible'.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

I thought the term 'swindle' or 'fiddle' implied that some significant(?) RoG were 'flexible'.

That’s a big leap! Nope a swindle just a group that put money in the pot and play stableford between themselves no club organised and usually have their own handicaps where players will lose 1, 2 or 3 shots depending on scores in the previous week. Some call it a fiddle, some a roll up etc, I think the term comes from swindling your mates money off them nothing more than that.

They still play by the RoG and have no impact on clubs comps. In our old one I had to play off scratch for months as I came second twice but never won a thing and my actual HC was same as it is now never affected anything at club level.

That’s where I take issue with it, it ruins the spirit of fun golf and forces people to submit cards when they shouldn’t have to.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

So if a person is not putting in GP cards how does that make their handicap ' not genuine'.

Does this mean to have a genuine handicap we all have to put in GP cards?

Under Annex A yes you do if paying in a roll up or swindle!

I don’t agree with it but it’s there in black and white. As I’ve said above takes away the spirit of the game and fun element of having a knock with your mates for a couple of quid.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I thought the term 'swindle' or 'fiddle' implied that some significant(?) RoG were 'flexible'.

A swindle is just a bunch of golfers playing together in some sort of comp that they decide

I play in two at the weekend

In one it’s £2 in , best individual score wins half the pot the best team scores wins the other half , there are also side games between the groups of 4bbb format , we don’t all have to putt out if the ball is within a putter handle - we have our own order of merit and run the handicaps in the way the old system worked - if someone wants to put in a GP score then they can by putting out etc


And it’s the same on the Sunday - except it’s a £5 in with money going towards a Xmas party - we have our own HC system with our own CSS and big cuts for winners etc

 

[clubchamp98]

It’s almost like an organisation trying to impose a system that golfers don’t like ,so they have just done what they have always done.

I play social golf midweek no cards
I play competition golf on a Saturday card in.

 

[Backache]

It’s almost like an organisation trying to impose a system that golfers don’t like ,so they have just done what they have always done.

I play social golf midweek no cards
I play competition golf on a Saturday card in.

Just this our roll ups are not played according to RoG strictly ergo there is no need to put cards in
Frankly if the authorities regulating handicap think its a good use of my time playing strict rules they can go and do one. I'm very happy to in formal competitions when you're out for fun the faff of putting out dropping in the correct place for lost balls or whatever is not the way we play.

 

[rulefan]

Just this our roll ups are not played according to RoG strictly ergo there is no need to put cards in
Frankly if the authorities regulating handicap think its a good use of my time playing strict rules they can go and do one. I'm very happy to in formal competitions when you're out for fun the faff of putting out dropping in the correct place for lost balls or whatever is not the way we play.

If you are not playing by the RoG there is no need to play by the RoH.