Club Pro, do they need our support?

[Fish]

I've read quite a few times how some people feel obliged to support their club pro, which I think is OK but, how much do they really need our support?

I'm not sure how they all function and I'm sure there will be some variations but my understanding is that they are on a retainer from the club which of course comes from the membership (and visitors) so in essence they already have some of my support. I do buy from my pro and have spent over 4 figures over the last 12 months so I'm not anti-pro but are they on a good thing?

They keep all lesson money, they have money from comps and winnings have to be spent back in their shop! As I have stated they all seem to be on a retainer so what are their overheads?

Do they pay rent and bills for their shop or is that all inclusive?

Really interested to know and learn what the breakdowns are of a typical pro at a club.

 

[thecraw]

110% yes, they need support to survive.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

110% yes, they need support to survive.

A good pro is an asset to a club in my view. My home clubs pro have been in position for a couple of seasons now and the club is much improved due to his pressence.

 

[Fish]

110% yes, they need support to survive.

You can't just state that without expanding on it.

What's their retainer?

Do they pay rent? Have they got a meter for leccy?

How many individual lessons a week do they do?

Most do group lessons for all ages at weekends and late summer nights.

So with all the above but not knowing what the answer is to some, do they really need retail sales revenue to survive?

 

[Fish]

A good pro is an asset to a club in my view. My home clubs pro have been in position for a couple of seasons now and the club is much improved due to his pressence.

I agree, however, some are more inclusive and visible than others.

What has your pro done to improve your club?

My query is based more around the requirement to support their retail arm, do they need it to survive?

 

[bobmac]

Impossible to answer as every club set up is different.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I agree, however, some are more inclusive and visible than others.

What has your pro done to improve your club?

My query is based more around the requirement to support their retail arm, do they need it to survive?

Our pro and his assistants (both ex-members) are an integral, visible, participating and very valued (at least by most members I believe) part of the club. I might ask the question 'Why wouldn't I buy from by Pro?' as much as 'Why should I buy from my Pro'.

Answer to former is probably cost and choice - though in my case the former is not that much of a differentiator - if it is at all.
Answer to the latter is as much my view given above 'Our Pro and his assistants...' as anything else.

How much he depends upon retail sales I don't know - but other factors being roughly equal, it does no harm and probably does the club (and the purchasing club member) good to give him the business.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Our pro carries very little stock but works hard to match on prices. I know Hawkeye got a great deal on his Titleist and I do very well on my FJ's. He provides a decent service, not only in terms of lessons, but in the other stuff like repairs. I've always had really good turnaround for my needs. He organises the comps well and the fact he's been there for over fifteen years means he must be doing something right.

 

[Kellfire]

I'm in a strange situation at my club... The club shop is Direct Golf but with teaching pros that operate out of the attached driving range.

Before DG came in, I didn't use the pro shop very often as I (and others) felt that there was a snobbish attitude towards the higher handicaps who weren't spending big money in the shop. I personally believe the quality of a product I was interested in was downplayed because he wanted to sell me a more expensive brand.

 

[Phil2511]

My mate is a pro and has 3 places.

His main place (750 members)he gets a retainer and a small % of green fees. Free shop.

For that he employs 2 full time staff, a pro and an assistant. He must coach every team within the club including ladies and juniors and is expected to attend every match they play no matter whereabouts in the country. He is expected to chase after societies to acquire their business, operate all club competitions, basically oversees everything within the club except catering. He's basically now Director if Golf/General Manager and Pro all rolled into 1 position. Much of that work has been added on over the past 3 years after they reduced his retainer by £12k pa.

2nd club He has a free shop and gets £12k pa retainer. No green fee %.
For this he has to employ 2 full time assistants. No team coaching is required but the shop runs the competition.

3rd place(mine) he pays £1500 per month for the shop but gets 8% of green fees and £180 a week from the 26 bay driving range. The shop is open 7:30-22:00 M-F and 7:30-21:00 S&S.

It requires 4 full time staff and 1 part time to operate its hours. No coaching or competitions as their is a Pro who coaches that works directly for the Golf Centre.

Each Full Time assistant is on a Salary of £10k pa and the pro is £16k the part time is on £7k

Each shop needs insurances, stocked, Internet, phone lines, credit card machines, Tills or rental, a computer for the BRS system. Then for my club yes he gets a weekly payment for the Range but he also has huge bank charges for lodging cash especially coins. The card machines have a monthly fee of £25 but if a credit card is used instead of a Debit Card there us a 3% handling fee. So a nice society comes to play and spends £500 for green fees. The £40 commission just becomes £25 if they pay by credit card.

Then the pro has to estimate what's going to sell when he's doing a pre book. If the members then decide that they don't want to pay that much for balls and change to cheaper balls then the pro can end up sitting with stock that ends up sold at cost price.

Generally 95% of items my pro can sell for less than the big stores. But occasionally he gets screwed. 2 examples are regards balls.

ProV1 His cost price £32.50 Nevada Bobs price 2Dozen £60
Ad333/Soft Feel Cost price £14.30 per dozen. Nevada Bobs price £14.99 a dozen buy 2 dozen get 3rd dozen free. So £30 selling price for 36 as opposed to his £43 cost price for 36.

At the end of 2012 he was sitting with 235 dozen between the 3 shops and when the Srixon rep came in to do the 2013 prebook he ended up giving 96 dozen free to help him shift the present stock. But by that stage everyone had stocked up on the deal from Nevada Bobs and then AG followed suit so the balls are still sitting.

Certainly not an easy business and I can't speak for all pros but ours does try his best and struggles to make a decent living.

 

[duncan mackie]

the variations are absolutely huge across all the golf course business models, and are evolving further all the time

 

[DCB]

Interesting questions, but as Bob has said every club setup is different. I certainly take my hat off to them for what they do as Club Professionals.

Since he is on a retainer from the Club he'll have certain obligations to meet for that. Taking his role as starter, he's there long hours that will vary depending upon the time of year. In winter it may be 9am-4pm but in summer, during the season it could be 8:30am-6:30pm weekdays and 7:30am-6:30pm at weekends. He has to be the face of the Club when dealing with visitors and visiting parties. He may have to provide coaching for the Junior section. Then there are the members who want a swing like Ernie..... how does he tell them it's not going to happen ? Then there are the ladies and their requests for shirts or jumpers to try on... all because they don't want to ask for a red club jersey in size 20 to be ordered !

Then he has to deal with the members and their often ridiculous requests or listen to their tales of how the greens were crap and that's why they shot 110 today. All the time, keeping a smile on their face and being polite to the customer.

Then they have to listen to all the stories of how the members can get kit at half the price online, but can they please try a demo club before they order from hookeygolfkit.com. Then there are the complaints about leaky shoes, shrunken pullovers and leaky waterproofs.

Tell you, they are worth their weight in gold putting up with that lot

 

[Fish]

the variations are absolutely huge across all the golf course business models, and are evolving further all the time

But their seemed to be a general consensus to support the club pro which could be warranted if they are indeed fighting against survival due to on-line sales activity, or they maybe OK as their package is comfortable or they may indeed be on a good thing and don't rely on their retail arm.

It just begged the question as I don't think many truly know their pro's real circumstances and situation and there doesn't seem to be much transparency to evaluate it.

 

[MetalMickie]

This was something I was trying to get at when I started a thread "How long before club pro's become extinct?"

Our pro has been at the Club for over 20 years & does an excellent job as 'the face of the Club', he runs a decent shop & generally tries to get close to online & AG etc; prices.

However, he is paid a significant retainer for collecting comp entry fees & visitors' fees and has modern shop premises foc. He also retains the income from the range and has priority use of this for lessons.

Despite this he is making less money than he was several years ago whilst, on the other hand, the Club's finances mean his deal has to be reviewed for value.

More & more members use the internet or High Street for their kit; after all their own budgets are under pressure and fewer people are now playing golf than 15-20 years ago.

Like the OP I wonder how we solve this problem as a club without a pro' doesn't seem right but then neither does a course (or the land it once occupied) without a club.

 

[MadAdey]

I think you should support your pro if they deserve to be supported. Some of them still have sky high prices and rely on people showing loyalty and paying what ever the pro wants to charge them. I personally do not believe in supporting your pro just because he is at your club.

My pro took over last January after being the assistant there for a few years. He was also a member and grew up playing there and some of his family still do. He has got the correct attitude toward running a shop. When he took over he turned it form the old style cramped shop full of rubbish and started again. The shop only sold Ping before he took over now he has multiple accounts to enable him to sell the best kit from all the manufacturers.

He keeps his prices low as his attitude is he is better off to make £30 3 times rather £50 once. I purchased an R11s from him as he was selling them for £299 on the day of release when everywhere else wanted between £299 and £329. He will always match internet prices, well that is if it is not that cheap that it is not worth it. He has been known to sell stuff at cost to match an internet price as he prefers to keep custom in shop and hopefully members will show him loyalty.

So I will show him my support when ever I need anything new as I know he will try and give me a good deal.

 

[beggsy]

Ours is on a roughly 20k retainer pls % of green fees and his comps club get a cut in summer months plus his shop is part of deal

 

[StrangelyBrown]

110% yes, they need support to survive.

A good pro is an asset to a club in my view.

Absolutely agree with these statements.

 

[moogie]

I think you should support your pro if they deserve to be supported. Some of them still have sky high prices and rely on people showing loyalty and paying what ever the pro wants to charge them. I personally do not believe in supporting your pro just because he is at your club.

This IMO is the RIGHT answer :thup:

 

[AMcC]

This IMO is the RIGHT answer :thup:

Have to say that Spike at your place always comes across as providing a very good service for the members and the shop appears to be well supported.

 

[Fader]

Depends on the pro as to whether he/she deserves our support.

Some will feel by pure fact that they're the pro at your club they have a divine right to your custom and money without ever trying to help, those are the ones that don't.

Whereas some will do what they can to price match or get as close as possible, they will stand and have a chat for no reason other than being friendly, offer small bits of advice even if its not paid for. The ones that go that bit further to make the members feel like the club is a home from home then they deserve every ounce of support the members can muster.