Church of England aims to put Wonga Out of Business

woody69 said:
Yes, the church have no ulterior motives at all do they?!

I think you present a bit of a straw man argument there. Saying I don't care about people being driven to suicide because of financial woes? WTF is that about? All I am trying to say is it is easy to lay the blame at the feet of the lender because your son (and many others like him I am sure) found themselves in a situation they couldn't control. Do lenders like Wonga have a level of responsibility to only lend to people that can afford to (or at least tell them they can afford to) repay the loans? Yes, of course they do. For whatever reason, your son passed the criteria for the loan (as I am sure many have in a similar position) but he didn't pay it back, even though I am sure there are many others in a similar situation that did.

Out of interest had Wonga and the ilk not existed or said they would not lend him the money what would he have done then? Seeked to gain the money via other means? Gone without (depending on what he needed the money for)?
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Oh dear...
 
woody69 said:
You make an excellent point.
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well at least there is a degree of sympathy in it. I find it sad that so many seem happy to let folk suffer if thet get themselves in a mess - brought on in part I'm guessing because we are given the impression from the likes of the DM that these are the feckless and useless of society who will look to the state to get them out of a mess of their own doing - or more often bleat to the state for support when they don't deserve it.

And therein there is problem - and one that the likes of the DM has a problem with as on a simplistic level it is not so easy to differentiate between the two groups - and it is easier to not try to do much differentiating and talk of dealing with both groups as one.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
well at least there is a degree of sympathy in it. I find it sad that so many seem happy to let folk suffer if thet get themselves in a mess - brought on in part I'm guessing because we are given the impression from the likes of the DM that these are the feckless and useless of society who will look to the state to get them out of a mess of their own doing - or more often bleat to the state for support when they don't deserve it.

And therein there is problem - and one that the likes of the DM has a problem with as on a simplistic level it is not so easy to differentiate between the two groups - and it is easier to not try to do much differentiating and talk of dealing with both groups as one.
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I'm sorry, I am not sure who you mean when you say DM?

That aside I think we are getting a little away from the discussion here. Please don't misunderstand me. I have sympathy for people that get themselves into certain situations. I certainly wish them no ill and hope they can resolve it. What I don't agree with though is those people laying the blame of their financial turmoil purely at the feet of short term money lenders because they took a risk at lending them some money, when all they did was assume the borrower was able to keep their end of the bargain. I'm quite heavily in debt and I have been close to the bone in terms of living month to month, but I took responsibility for that and I certainly don't think the lenders owed me anything or shouldn't exist because of my personal situation.
 
woody69 said:
What I don't agree with though is those people laying the blame of their financial turmoil purely at the feet of short term money lenders because they took a risk at lending them some money, when all they did was assume the borrower was able to keep their end of the bargain
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Which would be fine if there was any real element of risk; fine if they actually did proper checks to see if the borrower could afford the loan (so why on earth lend to someone on JSA - who by definition cannot afford a loan); fine if they did not then charge exorbitant rates of interest when payments are not made on time; and then fine if they did not hound the borrower to distraction on a daily basis - and to rub salt into wounds pass the borrowers details to other loan companies to go after them for future business.

I wish I wasn't posting from a position of experiencing them - but I am - I know what they are like :(
 
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Well, Wonga is a legal company but that does not mean it is not a predatory company which exploits the fecklessness of some of its customers. No doubt others have a good experience, albeit at punitive cost.

As an atheist, I am no supporter of the CoE, but I think this is a good use of their influence and financial power. Even if they never set up or support a credit union, they have shone a light on these companies.
 
Ethan said:
Well, Wonga is a legal company but that does not mean it is not a predatory company which exploits the fecklessness of some of its customers. No doubt others have a good experience, albeit at punitive cost.

As an atheist, I am no supporter of the CoE, but I think this is a good use of their influence and financial power. Even if they never set up or support a credit union, they have shone a light on these companies.
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Do I sense some tentative agreement with me @Ethan? - I think I do :thup: I must say a prayer of thanks to my Higher Power...:whistle:
 
Ethan said:
I guess so. These companies exploit weak people, and I have no problem with someone legally taking them on and stuffing them, even if that is the CofE.
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Unfortunately some believe that the weak and vulnerable only have themselves to blame for being weak and vulnerable. I for one believe that we who are better positioned in life should do what we can to protect the weak and vulnerable from exploitation (and indeed themselves) and to support those that find themselves in difficulty.

But hey - maybe that's something about me as a Scot with a bit of a social conscience. And if you are interested in how some see the principles an independent Scotland could work within, try reading a little about The Common Weal. As it happens it could also be a good framework for the rUK.

http://reidfoundation.org/common-weal/
 
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SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Unfortunately some believe that the weak and vulnerable only have themselves to blame for being weak and vulnerable. I for one believe that we who are better positioned in life should do what we can to protect the weak and vulnerable from exploitation (and indeed themselves) and to support those that find themselves in difficulty.

But hey - maybe that's something about me as a Scot with a bit of a social conscience. And if you are interested in how some see the principles an independent Scotland could work within, try reading a little about The Common Weal. As it happens it could also be a good framework for the rUK.

http://reidfoundation.org/common-weal/
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And you were doing so well with that post until the ridiculous racist crap and yet again trying to put a nationalistic stereotyping spin on things.
 
stevie_r said:
And you were doing so well with that post until the ridiculous racist crap and yet again trying to put a nationalistic stereotyping spin on things.
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what racist crap? - please DON'T accuse me of being racist. So I say I am a Scot with a social conscience - if you think that's racist then God help us.
 
Maybe because Scots and English are accepted as having generally different outlooks on many things - not saying one is right and the other is wrong - just different (see for example number of Tory MPs in Scotland)

Anyway - interesting commentary article by Janice Turner in The Times today reflecting upon the topic of The CoE and Payday Lenders. Those who disagree with my view may like to read it and tell me what they think.
 
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I am not sure the CoE is talking about the business or legal aspect of Wonga or any payday co. It is a moral argument about the impact such legit organisations can have on the most vulnerable & exposed part of the society. The church is stepping in to provide access to institutes that are less preying than existing alternatives. :blah:

On that note, can the church should also start an airlines.. the guys at RyanAir have too many hidden charges. :whistle:
 
vkurup said:
I am not sure the CoE is talking about the business or legal aspect of Wonga or any payday co. It is a moral argument about the impact such legit organisations can have on the most vulnerable & exposed part of the society. The church is stepping in to provide access to institutes that are less preying than existing alternatives. :blah:

On that note, can the church should also start an airlines.. the guys at RyanAir have too many hidden charges. :whistle:
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Angelair?
 
stevelev said:
Get a grip mate, there was nothing racist in it. Like me saying hey I'm english. Call me racist eh?

Swingsit I cant believe you even acknowledged him, I seen a few times he gets on his soap box over nothing
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I refuse to acknowledge some prick who thinks it is fine to abandon his comrades for six months and then clambers on his soap box at every opportunity. Why did you go absent? nasty op tour coming up? Go away doris
 
vkurup said:
Good name.. Tickets will be cheap as they will not provide any safety equipment. As this will the fastest way to meet the maker.
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though I might have difficulty - if occasional fun - sticking to what the scripture tells us. As in to 'you shall love your neighbour as yourself' - so no pre-booking a seat - I'd take my chances.
 
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