Church of England aims to put Wonga Out of Business

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Its worth remembering to reregister with the TPS online every year as your number can rejoin it during the year and calls can start again.

I did - today - as I thought it may have expired - and the TPS website message was that my number was already registered

My disgust at the PDLs comes from a £200 loan he took out with Wonga when he was unemployed and on JSA of £54 a week. He couldn't pay it back - he was never going to be able to - and couldn't deal with it so within a few months he was owing >£600 - (Mod Edit)

 

[palindromicbob]

So I read today that the Church of England aims to put Payday Lenders out of business by building credit unions to take their business.

Is this any 'business' of the Church's to be doing - using their influence and income through religion to disrupt, and possibly ruin, perfectly legal businesses?

So often in the past have I heard complaints from politicians, commentators and the public about the Church(es) interfering and trying to influence things that 'are none of their business' and telling them that they should 'stick to religion as that's what they are there for'. So what about this?

I think the credit union idea can only be a good thing. Don't think it will end pay day loans companies etc but it is excellent. As long as they learn the lesson from the Presbyterian credit union over hear.

As for the pay day loans companies. Don't get me started. They may be legal but their techniques are questionable. It's simply people getting rich from the poor, far to common a story in todays world.

I work as a mental health nurse and have seen some of the damage they can cause. I have met with people that were given pay day loans while intoxicated and this has led to suicide attempts because they could afford to pay it back and couldn't cope.

I have also had a client that had been given a cash for gold loan thinking they had pawned the jewellery. Only found out about it because staff had found the paperwork and realised it was a loan not a pawn. The jewellery was simply security but did not cover the full value of the cash given to him (unlike a pawn). He didn't have the capacity to understand the paperwork and the fact it was a loan with interest was not explained well to him.

The sooner they get rid of these "services" the better. They are fine for those who are able to manage them but all to often it is the vulnerable that get sucked into them.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

What has our country come to.
Every high street seems to be full of Pawnbrokers, Loan Companies, Bookies open till 10pm or shut up shops.
I never ever thought I would see the day when food banks were considered 'normal'.
Yet we still seem to see many signs of excessive wealth. Talk of a £60 MILLION contract to somebody who is quite good at kicking a fitba.

I do not think that this kind of society will survive, in fact I am quite surprised that some sections of our society seem to be
'complacent'.

Perhaps the Church of England should take a lead and start selling some of their massive reserves of property, art and treasures.

Yea.......I can really see that happening. Empty words, as usual from our church leaders.

 

[stevie_r]

What has our country come to.
Every high street seems to be full of Pawnbrokers, Loan Companies, Bookies open till 10pm or shut up shops.
I never ever thought I would see the day when food banks were considered 'normal'.
Yet we still seem to see many signs of excessive wealth. Talk of a £60 MILLION contract to somebody who is quite good at kicking a fitba.

I do not think that this kind of society will survive, in fact I am quite surprised that some sections of our society seem to be
'complacent'.

Perhaps the Church of England should take a lead and start selling some of their massive reserves of property, art and treasures.

Yea.......I can really see that happening. Empty words, as usual from our church leaders.

Perhaps all the different churches that comprise Christianity in the UK should do so. It does however seem a bit 'off' of you to suggest solely that the C of E should do it when they are in fact at least trying another initiative. Perhaps it's the word England in the name of the church that attracts your scorn.

 

[Rooter]

Had typed a long winded post which was probably too much. Gonna leave this one here. Enjoy the debate chaps....

 

[Doon frae Troon]

It has just emerged that the C of E have an investment in Wonga..........wow talk about egg on face.

 

[ger147]

It has just emerged that the C of E have an investment in Wonga..........wow talk about egg on face.

Whoopsie!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23459932

 

[brendy]

Dear oh dear oh dear!

 

[Fader]

Way to go CofE! Still not overly different from the catholic church whom preach against contraception and then for years had a massive financial stake in Durex!

Business is business, and the church still does a lot of good for the many despite all its naysayers and dodgy vicars

 

[stevie_r]

Very little to see here, move along.

A massive <100k not directly invested in Wonga by the CofE but by financial institutions managing it's pension fund.

 

[USER1999]

I think the church should stick to religion, which thankfully is on the decline.

 

[Birchy]

If they wanted to do-good surely they would be educating people how to get their head out of their arse and manage money because clearly this is a huge issue with society today.

Most people seem to just spend, spend, spend until the you know what hits the fan then panic and take out even more daft loans.

Lets be honest they are using the "church" as a cover to make money out of it imo.

 

[woody69]

My disgust at the PDLs comes from a £200 loan he took out with Wonga when he was unemployed and on JSA of £54 a week. He couldn't pay it back - he was never going to be able to - and couldn't deal with it so within a few months he was owing >£600 - (Mod Edit)

With all due respect, I don't know the circumstances surrounding the loan your son took out and the reasons why he did it, but if he was on JSA and unemployed and obviously no chance to repay the loan, why on earth did he take it in the first place? This isn't the fault of Wonga. The responsibility should be on your son. He would have been fully aware of the penalties when he took the loan, but still decided to take the risk.

I have a friend who was complaining that he owed 5k on a credit card that he couldn't repay and was just going to not pay it as it was the fault of the lender for giving him the credit in the first place and not his for actually spending it. We don't speak so much these days. It's about time people started taking responsibility for their own actions instead of trying to deflect it on to others.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I tend to blame our education system for a lot of this.
People may say it's the parents but as most parents know the last person teenagers listen to is their parents.

Secondary schools should have a course of personal finance for all 15/16 year olds.
Plus basic life skills like, sewing, cooking, safe driving, alcohol/drugs, citizenship etc.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

With all due respect, I don't know the circumstances surrounding the loan your son took out and the reasons why he did it, but if he was on JSA and unemployed and obviously no chance to repay the loan, why on earth did he take it in the first place? This isn't the fault of Wonga. The responsibility should be on your son. He would have been fully aware of the penalties when he took the loan, but still decided to take the risk.

Simple - because he was desperate, very worried and needed some money - I won't go into the reasons WHY he needed the money - but he did and he felt he couldn't come to us to help him out with this problem he had (he should have and we would have but that is then). So he went to the money lenders. And on £54 a week and no other source of income they lent him £200 - absolutely despeicable and immoral. And then they start chasing relentlessly and and sending threatening letters - and so he cracks and comes to us pleading for helpf to get him out of the hole is in. Fortunately I am able to. And even although we set a a regular payment agreement they are immediately on the phone chasing if we are a day late with a payment.

These days you don't lend money unlerss you are absolutely comfortable that the borrower can repay it - not Wonga and it's like.

And then I see that hah hah funny friendly how easy it is adverts for Wonga on TV and they make me sick (I will receive an infraction if I were to say what I really feel about them).

 

[Fader]

I think the church should stick to religion, which thankfully is on the decline.

I don't actually agree with this statement thats its on the decline. Its still certainly prevalant in many communities and catholic families much like my own. I'm not a church goer but still have my beliefs but all my family still go regularly and say the attendance has risen recently...

Back to the main points though:

I have a friend who was complaining that he owed 5k on a credit card that he couldn't repay and was just going to not pay it as it was the fault of the lender for giving him the credit in the first place and not his for actually spending it

There be the crux of this problem with payday lenders. Yes the company has exorbitant APR but! Its clearly laid out in front of those applying for the loans and they still accept them knowing there is a cat in hells chance of paying it off, yet blame the lender for giving it to them! Accountability must be taken by the individuals if you borrow against your means from anyone then expect to have to deal with the consequences

Secondary schools should have a course of personal finance for all 15/16 year olds.
Plus basic life skills like, sewing, cooking, safe driving, alcohol/drugs, citizenship etc.

Most schools in my area are now or have been doing this for a while and give citizenship awards for it, but ultimately a childs upbringing and morals are learnt from their parents so they can get all the teaching they want at school but if they are ill disciplined at home and not brought up to learn the values of things then it doesn't matter what schools do.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I think the church should stick to religion, which thankfully is on the decline.

So are you going to define religion in the context of society for me please if it does not include expressing and acting upon a faith-based concern for the poor, disadvantaged and misguided of society.

Oh yes sorry - I suppose religion for you is defined as going to a place of worship, singing and reciting stuff, reading a book, saying prayers (whatever they are), and listening to a guy or gal talk about religious stuff (like going to a place of worship, singing and reciting stuff, reading a book etc...).

Which would explain why you think that church(es) should stick to religion - what do they know about real life?

 

[woody69]

Simple - because he was desperate, very worried and needed some money - I won't go into the reasons WHY he needed the money - but he did and he felt he couldn't come to us to help him out with this problem he had (he should have and we would have but that is then). So he went to the money lenders. And on £54 a week and no other source of income they lent him £200 - absolutely despeicable and immoral. And then they start chasing relentlessly and and sending threatening letters - and so he cracks and comes to us pleading for helpf to get him out of the hole is in. Fortunately I am able to. And even although we set a a regular payment agreement they are immediately on the phone chasing if we are a day late with a payment.

These days you don't lend money unlerss you are absolutely comfortable that the borrower can repay it - not Wonga and it's like.

And then I see that hah hah funny friendly how easy it is adverts for Wonga on TV and they make me sick (I will receive an infraction if I were to say what I really feel about them).

I'm sorry, but it is your son in the wrong here, not Wonga for lending him the money. Your son would have said he could afford the repayments when he agreed to taking out the loan. I bet if they hadn't lent him the money he'd be berating them for not giving him a chance.

If he was desperate I'm sorry to hear that, but he must of had other options (namely you, or perhaps a friend, or selling something, or speaking to whoever he needed the money for to explain his situation etc etc etc), but he took the route to borrow money when he had no intention of paying it back. It's then no wonder the lender comes asking for their money, and quite rightly so chasing it up if you are a day late with the repayment plan as well.

It's akin to an obese person blaming McDonalds for making them fat.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'm sorry, but it is your son in the wrong here, not Wonga for lending him the money. Your son would have said he could afford the repayments when he agreed to taking out the loan. I bet if they hadn't lent him the money he'd be berating them for not giving him a chance.

If he was desperate I'm sorry to hear that, but he must of had other options (namely you, or perhaps a friend, or selling something, or speaking to whoever he needed the money for to explain his situation etc etc etc), but he took the route to borrow money when he had no intention of paying it back. It's then no wonder the lender comes asking for their money, and quite rightly so chasing it up if you are a day late with the repayment plan as well.

It's akin to an obese person blaming McDonalds for making them fat.

Oh you are so misunderstanding and not appreciative of the problems and circumstances that some folk find themselves in that force them into the arms of the money lenders - even when they know they can't afford it. But hey - that's society today - and that's why some folkk are driven to suicide - but why should you care - they got themselves into the mess in the first place - sad for them but not your problem.

And no - he did not have any other options - none - apart from us and he was too frightened to come to us See that's where folk expressing your views completely misunderstand the problems of many in our society - the same ones the current government seem to have a massive downer on to help us out of the mess the banks got us into (but let's not go there are clearly you believe it was the borrowers who were at fault not the lenders)

And that's where the churches come in - because they care about people.

 

[woody69]

Oh you are so misunderstanding and not appreciative of the problems and circumstances that some folk find themselves in that force them into the arms of the money lenders - even when they know they can't afford it. But hey - that's society today - and that's why some folkk are driven to suicide - but why should you care - they got themselves into the mess in the first place - sad for them but not your problem.

And no - he did not have any other options - none - apart from us and he was too frightened to come to us See that's where folk expressing your views completely misunderstand the problems of many in our society - the same ones the current government seem to have a massive downer on to help us out of the mess the banks got us into (but let's not go there are clearly you believe it was the borrowers who were at fault not the lenders)

And that's where the churches come in - because they care about people.

Yes, the church have no ulterior motives at all do they?!

I think you present a bit of a straw man argument there. Saying I don't care about people being driven to suicide because of financial woes? WTF is that about? All I am trying to say is it is easy to lay the blame at the feet of the lender because your son (and many others like him I am sure) found themselves in a situation they couldn't control. Do lenders like Wonga have a level of responsibility to only lend to people that can afford to (or at least tell them they can afford to) repay the loans? Yes, of course they do. For whatever reason, your son passed the criteria for the loan (as I am sure many have in a similar position) but he didn't pay it back, even though I am sure there are many others in a similar situation that did.

Out of interest had Wonga and the ilk not existed or said they would not lend him the money what would he have done then? Seeked to gain the money via other means? Gone without (depending on what he needed the money for)?