Children of America

[MadAdey]

To counter that they should arm all of the pupils.

(I'm getting the hang on the NRA logic now)

You get it then, the answer to everything is more guns. People think that even if you ban them then people will still get one if they want, so what’s the point in gun control.

Be honest people, who in the UK honestly thinks that if they wanted a military grade weapon they could get one easily, if at all.

I knew some dodgy people who could probably get hold of most things, but getting a military grade weapon, I think that was a bit of a reach.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Six years ago, 20 6 and 7 year-old were killed at Sandy Hook. Many of the gun nuts in US think that event didn't actually happen and are convinced it was a conspiracy to limit access to weapons. If that incident couldn't change people's minds over this issue, then I have very little hope that this one will.

I admire your optimism though. I've just given up hope.

And of course the Sandy Hook conspiracy theorists would then have to have you knowing that Nicole Hockley - the mother of a 6 yr old murdered at Sandy Hook who spoke at the 'listening session' with Trump on Wednesday - was an actor. She wasn't a real mother of a victim of Sandy Hook - because Sandy Hook didn't happen.

https://www.newstimes.com/local/article/Sandy-Hook-mom-to-Trump-at-White-House-meeting-12631407.php

And we learn today that an armed policeman was present at the school but failed to intervene - and has now resigned from the force. So much for an armed presence being a deterrent.

 

[bobmac]

Seven children and teens are killed with guns in the US on an average day.

If you don't change anything, nothing will change.

 

[Hacker Khan]

The end game here will be that teachers are recruited on their ability to handle a glock. So you will get a generation of American school kids who are normalised to teachers being proficient at shooting someone, but may be not so great at algebra. Best of luck with that US.

There seems to be a narrative that all Americans have guns and are happy using them so most teachers will be happy to carry concealed guns, when that is simply not true. There are many people I know from our offices in the US who do not have one or want one. And those that do use them at firing ranges and say there is no way they'd want to carry one at all times. Yes in parts of the US I expect more people are packing heat, but in other parts it is much less prevalent.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And so in a televised WH staff briefing yesterday Trump - who 1yr in some wish to be given a chance - expanded...

20, 30 maybe 40% of teachers carrying handguns concealed he reckons - and as many will be ex-military (really?) that'll deter shooters - and these teachers will get a bonus for being armed. And Trump tells us to consider the 67yr old ex-marine at the table - now were he teaching at that school he'd have stopped the carnage. Is Trump in his fantasy land thinking of Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino, when he of course refers to Gen john Kelly.

As Maddow advises, consider not Trump's words - look at his actions. 40% of teachers armed? - that's 1.4m armed teachers. Say $1000 bonus for carrying? Let's just say $1bn/yr for that bonus. And who is paying for that - existing budget? Well look at Trump's actions in the budget - where we find that the budget for school security has been CUT.

And Kelly remained silent when he should have interjected with a 'might not be that straightforward Mr President'

But of course Kelly is currently in a nose-to-nose with Jared Kushner over Kushner's security clearance. And if things remain as they currently are, then at the end of TODAY - Kelly will be having Kushner excluded from security briefings as Kushner's temporary security clearance will rescinded under a general directive from Kelly rescinding temp security clearance.

What a mess. Don't know what is worse - that Trump believes what he is saying and is living in a fantasy land - or that he is just making stuff up as he goes along and has no intention of changing anything

The only hope is that Senators Rubio and Scott in Florida are so pressurised and shamed by the children of America and of Florida in particular that they cannot avoid supporting change and risking their NRA funding.

 

[bobmac]

Well it seems things may be changing.
It seems Trump supports
Banning bump stocks
Increased background checks
Increasing the age from 18 to 21 to buy a firearm.

It may not be enough for some but it is a start.

Well done kids :thup:

 

[Hacker Khan]

Well it seems things may be changing.
It seems Trump supports
Banning bump stocks
Increased background checks
Increasing the age from 18 to 21 to buy a firearm.

It may not be enough for some but it is a start.

Well done kids :thup:

What will be telling is how much the NRA rally against it. If they do then there is chance it might make a practical difference. If they do not then chances are it will have been authorised by the NRA and in reality bugger all will change.

 

[bobmac]

What will be telling is how much the NRA rally against it. If they do then there is chance it might make a practical difference. If they do not then chances are it will have been authorised by the NRA and in reality bugger all will change.

The alternative is to sit back and do nothing until the next mass killing of children.
Thoughts and prayers don't help.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The alternative is to sit back and do nothing until the next mass killing of children.
Thoughts and prayers don't help.

And some, if not all, of what you have listed as being what Trump is going to propose (or is proposing) will not be in his gift to deliver - it will have to go through Congress - and the NRA will apply the pressure on the members of congress...how many will put the wishes of the Children before the wishes of the NRA?

As it happens I believe that prayers can help, as those members of Congress who believe will know the will of God through their understanding of the right thing to do is - as opposed what they want as individuals.

 

[bobmac]

And some, if not all, of what you have listed as being what Trump is going to propose (or is proposing) will not be in his gift to deliver - it will have to go through Congress - and the NRA will apply the pressure on the members of congress...how many will put the wishes of the Children before the wishes of the NRA?

As it happens I believe that prayers can help, as those members of Congress who believe will know the will of God through their understanding of the right thing to do is - as opposed what they want as individuals.

So no point in even trying then.
Just keep your thoughts and prayers coming until the next killing.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So no point in even trying then.
Just keep your thoughts and prayers coming until the next killing.

You misunderstand the power of prayer...that it does not work without subsequent and consequent action. (but if you're not of that mind then you won't get that - and I get that)

The appropriate action will only come about when individual members of Congress understand the difference between what they individually want to do, and what they will come to know is the right thing for them to do - for society - and the right thing for society may well not be at all what they themselves might want - as is the case here in respect of NRA funding and lobbying.

So of course Trump MUST try. But he depends upon Congress...and I have little doubt if he struggles to get anything through Congress it will be the Dems fault

 

[user2010]

You misunderstand the power of prayer...that it does not work without subsequent and consequent action. (but if you're not of that mind then you won't get that - and I get that)

The appropriate action will only come about when individual members of Congress understand the difference between what they individually want to do, and what they will come to know is the right thing for them to do - for society - and the right thing for society may well not be at all what they themselves might want - as is the case here in respect of NRA funding and lobbying.

So of course Trump MUST try. But he depends upon Congress...and I have little doubt if he struggles to get anything through Congress it will be the Dems fault

The power of prayer does absolutely squat, end of.
If you pray hard enough to your imaginary friend, he/it will end mass shootings.......yeah, right.

 

[SocketRocket]

The power of prayer does absolutely squat, end of.
If you pray hard enough to your imaginary friend, he/it will end mass shootings.......yeah, right.

Making comments like that without taking the time and effort to understand someones beliefs is not constructive argument. If you have an educated counter view on religion then make it by debate and reason rather than comments like "end of" or "yeah right" then people may take your comments seriously.

 

[Beezerk]

Making comments like that without taking the time and effort to understand someones beliefs is not constructive argument. If you have an educated counter view on religion then make it by debate and reason rather than comments like "end of" or "yeah right" then people may take your comments seriously.

Alternatively you could say that claiming god and prayers will help reduce the amount of mass shootings is also not a constructive argument.
.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Making comments like that without taking the time and effort to understand someones beliefs is not constructive argument. If you have an educated counter view on religion then make it by debate and reason rather than comments like "end of" or "yeah right" then people may take your comments seriously.

Many thanks @SR :thup:

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Alternatively you could say that claiming god and prayers will help reduce the amount of mass shootings is also not a constructive argument.
.

Though I could constructively argue that it's a belief rather than a claim

 

[SocketRocket]

Alternatively you could say that claiming god and prayers will help reduce the amount of mass shootings is also not a constructive argument.
.

Again, it's a matter of explaining how someones belief is incorrect. You can only make a counter argument by proving a belief is wrong and as we are free to hold our own interpretations it must be subjective. To suggest God and prayers will not help to reduce mass shootings requires more than sound bites to make an effective case.

 

[bobmac]

Again, it's a matter of explaining how someones belief is incorrect. You can only make a counter argument by proving a belief is wrong and as we are free to hold our own interpretations it must be subjective. To suggest God and prayers will not help to reduce mass shootings requires more than sound bites to make an effective case.

I think there are 17 families in Florida who could make a good case.

 

[user2010]

Again, it's a matter of explaining how someones belief is incorrect. You can only make a counter argument by proving a belief is wrong and as we are free to hold our own interpretations it must be subjective. To suggest God and prayers will not help to reduce mass shootings requires more than sound bites to make an effective case.

So what do these religious types pray for to their imaginary friend/s after an atrocity/mass shooting?

 

[PhilTheFragger]

The People of America must be sleeping very soundly in their beds , safe in the knowledge that their President would so brave and selfless as to run in to a school shooting unarmed.

Cough cough.

I hear sales of “SuperTrump” tee shirts are well up