Children of America

bobmac

bobmac

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I think they may have found their spokesperson

[video]https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/17/us/florida-student-emma-gonzalez-speech/index.html[/video]
 
Powerful stuff. It's a pity not a thing will be done.
I had a look at the video on YouTube and the results are just as I expected, sadly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cK9ie9SFjk
People will still bury their heads in the sand and pretend the issue is not the availability of guns.
I despair for them as they can't see that they are the only country in the world where this happens.
Interesting stats on this page
CNN Americas Gun Culture
 
She makes a very simple point. People say the shooter was mentally disturbed, but if the mentally disturbed didn't have access to guns these incidents wouldn't happen.
 
Hobbit said:
She makes a very simple point. People say the shooter was mentally disturbed, but if the mentally disturbed didn't have access to guns these incidents wouldn't happen.
Click to expand...
That kind of logical argument will never work. In fact if logical arguments worked there wouldn't be a need for this debate. I take you back to the Jim Jeffires gun routine on another thread.
 
Putting aside my cynicism over whether Trump will do anything at all - listening to the students leading the 'change the gun laws' campaign - planning a major march in Washington next month - what an articulate and passionate group of young people - a real challenge to the juvenile narcissism of the PotUS and the subservience of his acolytes.
 
bobmac said:
Mass walkouts and demonstrations in Florida now by students and teachers.
This could be Trumps chance to go down in history.
Click to expand...

He's already going down ... in history

One of my fave US TV political hosts/commentators - Rachel Maddow on MSNBC - talks of how they have come to dealing with Trump as if they were watching a silent movie. They ignore the words and watch the actions.

So for example she cites his declaration that he wants 'bump stocks' for semi-automatic weapons banned as all fine and good - but Obama tried this in April 2013 and got stuck as such a ban was not within his remit - it has to go as a bill to Congress. And of course it got nowhere. So if Trump is serious about getting 'bump stocks' banned, he has to get a bill into Congress and get his own party to vote it into legislation. And at the moment there is not a lot of sign of such a bill being proposed.

And Trump's real 'big idea'? To have 20% of teachers carrying concealed handguns. At MArjory Stoneman Douglas High School this would have had 28 teachers running around looking for the 'shooter' - most probably scared witless and being expected to 'down' a shooter without harming any of their armed colleagues or any students or teachers. Besides - 20% of teachers? That's 700,000 armed teachers...

Then when you have the US right wing press describing the kids as 'paid actors' - a rent-a-crowd - and listen to the words today from the Chair of the NRA...

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/22/politics/wayne-lapierre-cpac-speech-nra/index.html
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
He's already going down ... in history

One of my fave US TV political hosts/commentators - Rachel Maddow on MSNBC - talks of how they have come to dealing with Trump as if they were watching a silent movie. They ignore the words and watch the actions.

So for example she cites his declaration that he wants 'bump stocks' for semi-automatic weapons banned as all fine and good - but Obama tried this in April 2013 and got stuck as such a ban was not within his remit - it has to go as a bill to Congress. And of course it got nowhere. So if Trump is serious about getting 'bump stocks' banned, he has to get a bill into Congress and get his own party to vote it into legislation. And at the moment there is not a lot of sign of such a bill being proposed.

And Trump's real 'big idea'? To have 20% of teachers carrying concealed handguns. At MArjory Stoneman Douglas High School this would have had 28 teachers running around looking for the 'shooter' - most probably scared witless and being expected to 'down' a shooter without harming any of their armed colleagues or any students or teachers. Besides - 20% of teachers? That's 700,000 armed teachers...

Then when you have the US right wing press describing the kids as 'paid actors' - a rent-a-crowd - and listen to the words today from the Chair of the NRA...

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/22/politics/wayne-lapierre-cpac-speech-nra/index.html
Click to expand...

I know.
But I've got a feeling this will be different.
We'll know how big this is on March 24th and I hope it will be start of a change.

As for the NRA.....even some of their members are unhappy with the stance being taken by Dana Loesch and Lapierre
 
bobmac said:
I know.
But I've got a feeling this will be different.
We'll know how big this is on March 24th and I hope it will be start of a change.

As for the NRA.....even some of their members are unhappy with the stance being taken by Dana Loesch and Lapierre
Click to expand...

Six years ago, 20 6 and 7 year-old were killed at Sandy Hook. Many of the gun nuts in US think that event didn't actually happen and are convinced it was a conspiracy to limit access to weapons. If that incident couldn't change people's minds over this issue, then I have very little hope that this one will.

I admire your optimism though. I've just given up hope.
 
But these are 16/17 year olds who are articulate and who have a voice.
And soon they will have a vote.
Trump should be advised not to ignore them as their numbers and support are growing.

If they don't try, what's the alternative ?
 
It would appear that people have been exploiting this tragedy, by asking that the weapons that cause it are banned, how dare they! I have no belief that any meaningful change will be driven by the Politicians, certainly not in their current state, the NRA have too much power. The only way this will change, is if the people drive it, both by action on the streets, and by electing Politicians who can drive the changes through.

As for Trump’s comments earlier, I’m not sure how he thinks Wild West shoot-outs, in schools, are a good thing.
 
Nothing is going to happen, plain and simple. Why you may ask, the answer is simple........ people are more concerned with keeping their guns rather than stopping this happening again. All I hear is people going on about why they should keep their guns and a stupid amount of meems on their facebook pages trying to support this. None of them appear to give 2 ***** about what happened as long as they can keep their guns.

In the last 12 months there has been 4 big shooting incidents, the Florida nightclub shooting killing nearly 50 people, Las Vegas that killed over 50 people, over 20 people killed in a church shooting and now a school shooting killing 17 people. People are starting to listen, they are realizing that you are not safe anywhere. When your kids are not safe at school or you can't go to church on a Sunday morning there really is something wrong.
 
If you really did go through with the lunacy of arming a bunch of teachers at every school and there was an incident that would cause them to use them...

Police turn up to a firefight... how do they know who the bad guys are?
 
I don't think the kids are asking everyone to give up their guns, they are asking for better background checks to stop people with mental health problems from getting semi automatic rifles and to raise the age limit for buying guns to 21
 
Slab said:
If you really did go through with the lunacy of arming a bunch of teachers at every school and there was an incident that would cause them to use them...

Police turn up to a firefight... how do they know who the bad guys are?
Click to expand...

That is the exact argument that is being used and rightly so. Look at it this way, the US education system is very under funded, to the point that teachers have to buy their own stationary as the school can’t afford to supply them.

So who is going to buy all these guns for the teachers. Pay for all the ammunition to go to a gun range to practice, pay for the range time, pay for body armour, pay for lock boxes to keep the gun in. Pay them to attend gun training, pay the fuel for them going to and from gun ranges and gun training classes.
 
One of the big problems is that it is too easy to get hold of an assault rifle. I could go and purchase one in a private sale from the internet right now and within 15 mins be shooting somewhere up. You do not need any type of license or background check in a private sale.

Even if I was on my way to do it and the police stopped me for whatever reason and saw the rifle, they still couldn’t do anything as I’m not breaking any laws.
 
MadAdey said:
That is the exact argument that is being used and rightly so. Look at it this way, the US education system is very under funded, to the point that teachers have to buy their own stationary as the school can’t afford to supply them.

So who is going to buy all these guns for the teachers. Pay for all the ammunition to go to a gun range to practice, pay for the range time, pay for body armour, pay for lock boxes to keep the gun in. Pay them to attend gun training, pay the fuel for them going to and from gun ranges and gun training classes.
Click to expand...

And the possibility its a gun carrying teacher who goes off his head on the next rampage through a school
 
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