Change of position of out-of-bounds stake?

[HomerJSimpson]

If you were playing an away course, how do you know where the post was or should have been? As it happens, if you've hit it towards a bush you've hit a bad shot irrespective of where the OB was. That's nothing to do with the rules or the markers being moved. Just a bad piece of execution over the shot

 

[Duckster]

What I was actually asking was who has the right to change OOB boundaries, e.g. the Committee, Club Manager, Secretary, or Head Greenkeeper, and should any changes be promulgated to the club members? Don't think I have got direct answers to these questions as yet

TBH, when the card states that (eg) "the marker posts down the right hand side of the 4th hole define OOB" they don't give you a fully defined map of where they are. It's also down to the player to look at the clearly defined posts that show the OOB.

It just appears to me that you played a bad shot and are now trying to blame it on someone else.

There are times where you need to just stand up, grow up, and take the rub of the green.

 

[duncan mackie]

What I was actually asking was who has the right to change OOB boundaries, e.g. the Committee, Club Manager, Secretary, or Head Greenkeeper, and should any changes be promulgated to the club members? Don't think I have got direct answers to these questions as yet

The committee - see 33-2 a

As rulefan has said they have the responsibility to ensue it correctly marked but do not have any requirement to communicate it's existence or parameters beyond that.

 

[Three]

He plays that course all the time.

He knows it's a risk /reward shot that leaves him on the fairway or in the bush, in this instance he rolled into the bush. So normally that would be a penalty drop, a wedge on and either a par or bogey. Had he missed the bush he would have a chance of birdie or bogey. That's a fair risk /reward.

What everyone who is so keen to jump on him seems to overlook though, is that someone overnight totally changed the boundaries of the course, and hence the playing characteristics of the hole, by moving the OB marker that was previously in a known and fixed position, without telling anyone. That action, when combined with not letting any of the golfers know, was plain dumb.

Clearly there are no "rules" to say that anyone "must" inform the members, but out of respect and common golfing sense, it would be a great idea.

 

[rulefan]

Well we can only read what's written, and you wrote "This would equally apply ",so it's fair to assume you are equating them.

Read it carefully in the context of the words in the post.

But if it is the Saturday medal, virtually all players would have to contend with the changed circumstances. This would equally apply to .... (and) .....

 

[Imurg]

You're assuming that the club hasn't told anyone..
Isn't it possible Del just didn't "get the memo"..?
Not everyone sees every notice on the board every time.......

 

[Three]

I'm just about to play a tournament this weekend.
Today I played a first practice round and made notes on the positions of the OB's and hazards. Distances from the tees, distances from the greens, etc etc.

For example, when playing the dogleg right 5th hole, the OB is 275 yds in a straight line, I've done my preparation and in the wet conditions I know I can't reach it unless the ground suddenly hardens up.

So according to many of your comments, if I play a 3wood off that tee in round 1 straight down the fairway towards the dogleg , but someone has snuck out on the course overnight and moved the OB markers 40 yds closer without telling us, and I go OB, I've played a bad shot have I?

That is exactly the same scenario as the OP.

 

[pokerjoke]

Im with Delc regarding the movement of the OOB posts I for one would be extremely peeved if they were moved in overnight and players were not informed.

As for playing another shot if he had known I don't believe that.

 

[rulefan]

No disagreement with that.

But if it happens, a complaint to the committee would be appropriate, but not a world wide broadcast about how unfair life is.

 

[Duckster]

He plays that course all the time.

He knows it's a risk /reward shot that leaves him on the fairway or in the bush, in this instance he rolled into the bush. So normally that would be a penalty drop, a wedge on and either a par or bogey. Had he missed the bush he would have a chance of birdie or bogey. That's a fair risk /reward.

What everyone who is so keen to jump on him seems to overlook though, is that someone overnight totally changed the boundaries of the course, and hence the playing characteristics of the hole, by moving the OB marker that was previously in a known and fixed position, without telling anyone. That action, when combined with not letting any of the golfers know, was plain dumb.

Clearly there are no "rules" to say that anyone "must" inform the members, but out of respect and common golfing sense, it would be a great idea.

So it was a bad shot. The OOB was still clearly marked. I'm failing to see why it was anyone else's but Delc's fault?

As I said before. There are times where you just need to grow up. And this is not having a dig at Delc or yourself, but sometimes you need to take blame. There are posts there. They are (as said by Delc) clearly marked.

There's no issue to argue. Move on.

Enjoy golf.

 

[pokerjoke]

I'm just about to play a tournament this weekend.
Today I played a first practice round and made notes on the positions of the OB's and hazards. Distances from the tees, distances from the greens, etc etc.

For example, when playing the dogleg right 5th hole, the OB is 275 yds in a straight line, I've done my preparation and in the wet conditions I know I can't reach it unless the ground suddenly hardens up.

So according to many of your comments, if I play a 3wood off that tee in round 1 straight down the fairway towards the dogleg , but someone has snuck out on the course overnight and moved the OB markers 40 yds closer without telling us, and I go OB, I've played a bad shot have I?

That is exactly the same scenario as the OP.

Agreed that would be plain stupid and rather unfair

 

[Colin L]

What I was actually asking was who has the right to change OOB boundaries, e.g. the Committee, Club Manager, Secretary, or Head Greenkeeper, and should any changes be promulgated to the club members? Don't think I have got direct answers to these questions as yet

I was certainly intending my answer way back in post #24 to be direct, but save yourself the work of looking back to it. It is the responsibility of what is referred to in the rules as the Committee to define the boundaries of the course. What "Committee" is called in your club, I don't know but some group, formally established, will be responsible. It would sanction and arrange any changes.

My view is that as a helpful courtesy, significant changes should be explained to members in advance, but that's just a matter of good management and not a rules requirement.

Your question reminded me that I have to catch up with the job of making a change to an internal OOB at my own club. I'll be doing that with the delegated authority of the Golf Committee and will certainly put out information to members on what is happening. But the change is more than just shifting a stake. If that's all it was, I wouldn't put out a notice. Hope that helps.

 

[Three]

You're assuming that the club hasn't told anyone..
Isn't it possible Del just didn't "get the memo"..?
Not everyone sees every notice on the board every time.......

Yes of course that's completely feasible.

But his query is about someone moving the boundaries of the course without telling anyone.

I take the OP at face value.

 

[Imurg]

Yes of course that's completely feasible.

But his query is about someone moving the boundaries of the course without telling anyone.

I take the OP at face value.

Not sure its quite like that.
Del doesn't mention that nobody had been told, only that he hadn't been told. Just as easy to assume a notice has been posted and Del didn't see it as to speculate that nobody knew.
The stupid thing is that their OB markers are brown with white tops.....what eejit thought that one up?
However you view it, whether he knew, anyone else knew or nobody knew, it was an offline shot.
It could easily have disappeared into the bush, run through to the original OB line or hit a branch and bounced back out....
That's golf.
Sometimes you get the rub of the green and sometimes you don't....

 

[Three]

However you view it, whether he knew, anyone else knew or nobody knew, it was an offline shot.
It could easily have disappeared into the bush, run through to the original OB line or hit a branch and bounced back out....
That's golf.
Sometimes you get the rub of the green and sometimes you don't....

Perhaps I'm the only one giving him the benefit of having good course management, ie knowing that normally he couldn't go out of bounds.
Obviously his ball went in a bush, but hands up who hasn't hit one a bit off line?
He only went OB because the marker was moved, unknown to him.

As for his attention to what's going on, who knows?

 

[delc]

Not sure its quite like that.
Del doesn't mention that nobody had been told, only that he hadn't been told. Just as easy to assume a notice has been posted and Del didn't see it as to speculate that nobody knew.
The stupid thing is that their OB markers are brown with white tops.....what eejit thought that one up?
However you view it, whether he knew, anyone else knew or nobody knew, it was an offline shot.
It could easily have disappeared into the bush, run through to the original OB line or hit a branch and bounced back out....
That's golf.
Sometimes you get the rub of the green and sometimes you don't....

I didn't hit the shot quite as intended, actually pushed it a bit right and the left to right wind pushed it further right and it just ran into the bush after an unfortunate bounce. I have seen lots of other players end up in the same position in the past, but they were just able to take a penalty drop and continue. I was a bit miffed to find that one of the OOB posts had been moved and my ball (which I did find under the bush) was now out of bounds. A two club length penalty drop would have got me clear of the bush and in a position to play a wedge to the green, but that was no longer an option. I had already played a provisional ball in case the original was lost, so had to continue with that under penalty of stroke and distance.

 

[chrisd]

So, how far in was the marker moved?

 

[Old Skier]

So, how far in was the marker moved?

15 foot if memory serves but it's more fun reading forumers having a pop at each other

 

[delc]

So, how far in was the marker moved?

From what I can remember, about 15 yards. By the way, both my fellow competitors asked me why I wasn't taking a penalty drop, so they obviously didn't know about the change either!

 

[Foxholer]

Del. Have you checked the Noticeboard, asked in the Pro shop - or the DoG - whether (and/or when) the change had been posted, or whether they even knew about it?

If not, why not? The Noticeboard is, after all, the traditional place where such changes are notified!