Casual Water in Bunkers

[HighPostPinger]

Does anyone else think that the rule about taking relief from casual water in a bunker is unfair?

Invariably when you take the drop, the ball plugs and now you have no chance of rescuing your par. Surely the ball should be placed at the nearest point of relief to give you a chance of actually getting it out of the bunker.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

Welcome to the forum.

Don't have a problem with that rule, unless the water is several inches deep I would take my chance playing the ball as it lies. No point in risking a plugged ball.

Interesting is your comment saying 'to give you a chance of actually getting it out of the bunker' Having an awkward or impossible lie is the risk you run going in the bunker in the first place, especially links pot bunkers and could be classed as part of the game or 'rub of the green' I guess.

Damn annoying when it happens though!

 

[Colin L]

Does anyone else think that the rule about taking relief from casual water in a bunker is unfair?

Invariably when you take the drop, the ball plugs and now you have no chance of rescuing your par. Surely the ball should be placed at the nearest point of relief to give you a chance of actually getting it out of the bunker.

I'd suggest that what you are asking for is a better situation than the one you would have had if the casual water hadn't been there and that seems to me unreasonable. Your ball wasn't placed in the bunker in the first place - it "dropped" in giving any old lie, good or bad. All you should get from the relief is the same.

 

[HighPostPinger]

I'd suggest that what you are asking for is a better situation than the one you would have had if the casual water hadn't been there and that seems to me unreasonable. Your ball wasn't placed in the bunker in the first place - it "dropped" in giving any old lie, good or bad. All you should get from the relief is the same.

The bit I've highlighted above is exactly what I'm on about. Why shouldn't I get relief and still have the same lie if my ball has run into the bunker? I agree that in some cases a high ball would have plugged instead of splashing, but how many times is your ball buried in a bunker? If every free drop results in a 'poached egg' lie, then that's unfair in my view. Don't the Rules talk about 'parity'? With 'parity' a ball which ran into a flooded bunker should be "rewarded" with the same flat lie it would have had if the bunker was dry. I must stress that I'm not looking for an advantage in any way - that's cheating in my view.

A change in the rules would mean an acceptance that on some occasions a ball which might have been buried is now playable. I would suggest that this is an acceptable 'rub of the green' as the majority of shots which end up in the water in the bunker are getting no unfair advantage.

 

[Colin L]

What I mean by "what you should get is the same" is that you should get the same unpredictable chance of a good or a bad lie as you had when you put your ball in a bunker. Since it is unpredictable in the first place, you shouldn't expect relief to give you the certainty of a good lie.

 

[Imurg]

And don't forget Bunkers are supposed to be hazards anyway. It's not supposed to be easy to get out and you don't always get a perfect lie.
Be thankful you don't have to play it as it lies........

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Sorry but if you hit it in a bunker then take your punishment. What would you do if the nearest point of relief was directly under the lip making it impossible to get out anyway? Go in there and accept your fate

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So if you are in a flooded bunker your nearestv point of relief is any part of the bunker not flooded. And if it can't be dropped on a dry bit it has to be placed. And if the whole bunker is flooded then what?

 

[Colin L]

So if you are in a flooded bunker your nearestv point of relief is any part of the bunker not flooded. And if it can't be dropped on a dry bit it has to be placed.

Well, not quite. Firstly the nearest point of relief cannot be nearer the hole. Then, if you can't find a dry bit that is not nearer the hole you can choose the point nearest the ball where you get maximum relief (e.g. a shallower bit that will give you a better shot). See Rule 25-1b(ii).

In both cases Rule 20-2c(v) applies: ie when your NPR is clear of the casual water and your dropped ball rolls into a position where there is still interference from the casual water or, when your NPR is the point of maximum relief and your ball rolls into a worse position (eg deeper water) then you redrop and if the same thing happens, only then can you place the ball.

And if the whole bunker is flooded then what?

Play the ball as it lies;
drop in the bunker at the point of maximum relief;
drop the ball behind the bunker on a line from where it lay to the hole under a 1 stroke penalty;
or play from where the previous stroke was played under a 1 stroke penalty

 

[Fish]

I think if the whole of the bunker was flooded then a local rule should be introduced and the bunker should be roped and placed under GUR so full relief could be taken.

 

[bobmac]

I think if the whole of the bunker was flooded then a local rule should be introduced and the bunker should be roped and placed under GUR so full relief could be taken.

That would be reasonable if it was flooded at the start of play but that's not always the case

 

[Fish]

That would be reasonable if it was flooded at the start of play but that's not always the case

Some of ours have been flooded for weeks which is why I made the point.

 

[walshawwhippet]

Some of ours have been flooded for weeks which is why I made the point.

I'am sorry fish, but i don't agree. The idea is to avoid bunkers, just because they're full of water well tuff, take your shot penalty
or risk staining your Galvins. I personally hate bunkers & if i ever found meself in one of those links style pot bunkers i'd probably declare it unplayable weather it had water in it or not, less potential damage that way

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Well, not quite. Firstly the nearest point of relief cannot be nearer the hole. Then, if you can't find a dry bit that is not nearer the hole you can choose the point nearest the ball where you get maximum relief (e.g. a shallower bit that will give you a better shot). See Rule 25-1b(ii).

In both cases Rule 20-2c(v) applies: ie when your NPR is clear of the casual water and your dropped ball rolls into a position where there is still interference from the casual water or, when your NPR is the point of maximum relief and your ball rolls into a worse position (eg deeper water) then you redrop and if the same thing happens, only then can you place the ball.



Play the ball as it lies;
drop in the bunker at the point of maximum relief;
drop the ball behind the bunker on a line from where it lay to the hole under a 1 stroke penalty;
or play from where the previous stroke was played under a 1 stroke penalty

Thanks Colin

 

[Fish]

I'am sorry fish, but i don't agree. The idea is to avoid bunkers, just because they're full of water well tuff, take your shot penalty
or risk staining your Galvins. I personally hate bunkers & if i ever found meself in one of those links style pot bunkers i'd probably declare it unplayable weather it had water in it or not, less potential damage that way

What penalty shot?

I'm very good and some-what accurate out of bunkers and sometimes prefer them to bumping from the rough edges of some greens, although they must have sand in them as designed.

I practice a lot with my bunker play because like them or not they are an itegral part of all courses and some long drives to blind fairways can mean your caught in them and some 200yrd + par 3's are surrounded by them but I do not see them as an automatic penalty shot!

However, when the ball is 6" under water a penalty shot is inevetable with no sand on view which has nothing to do with it being "tuff", its a case of the bunker being in a condition it is not designed to be in!