Mel Smooth
Hacker
Think the global audience are very clear
LIV can’t stand up without the PIF money because the global audience isn’t enough to support it
Is it enough to support the PGAT - now they've increased purses, without the SSG money?
Think the global audience are very clear
LIV can’t stand up without the PIF money because the global audience isn’t enough to support it
Is it enough to support the PGAT - now they've increased purses, without the SSG money?
It’s not needing a oil country to stand it up
The PGAT has multiple revenues steams that can support the tour and stand it up
Take away the PIF fund and LIV falls over
There is no global audience that can sustain it
It’s the US audience that brings in the money
The losses at LIV increased to over £350mil
LIV's financial losses reportedly 'piling up at a staggering rate'
amp.awfulannouncing.com
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New report details LIV Golf's "staggering losses" | bunkered.co.uk
The latest Money In Sport newsletter has taken a forensic look at LIV Golf's financials - and the numbers are eye-watering.www.bunkered.co.uk
It’s not sustainable without PIF
It’s why Saudi want to be part of the PGAT
It is ???The Saudis want a seat at the PGAT table to help grow LIV, and golf, across the planet. The PGAT as it was - was never enough to promote the sport for tourism in the KSA - which is fundamentally why the Saudi's are in the game.
The Saudis want a seat at the PGAT table to help grow LIV, and golf, across the planet. The PGAT as it was - was never enough to promote the sport for tourism in the KSA - which is fundamentally why the Saudi's are in the game.
If they can't get that seat without maintaining LIV, then there will be no deal.
Really like Paul McGinley’s proposal for unity. Very similar to what I’d propose. pic.twitter.com/dIN5ELKDfh
— Matt Vincenzi (@MattVincenziPGA) March 12, 2025
It’s not needing a oil country to stand it up
The PGAT has multiple revenues steams that can support the tour and stand it up
Take away the PIF fund and LIV falls over
There is no global audience that can sustain it
It’s the US audience that brings in the money
The losses at LIV increased to over £350mil
LIV's financial losses reportedly 'piling up at a staggering rate'
amp.awfulannouncing.com
![]()
New report details LIV Golf's "staggering losses" | bunkered.co.uk
The latest Money In Sport newsletter has taken a forensic look at LIV Golf's financials - and the numbers are eye-watering.www.bunkered.co.uk
It’s not sustainable without PIF
It’s why Saudi want to be part of the PGAT
Interesting speculation, but he doesn't have a seat at the table ...McGinley isn't far off the mark here with what a reconciliation would look like imo. I suspect there are a few PGAT players who would like to play a few LIV events, so maybe have a PGAT team that participates through the season with players rotating.
Really like Paul McGinley’s proposal for unity. Very similar to what I’d propose. pic.twitter.com/dIN5ELKDfh
— Matt Vincenzi (@MattVincenziPGA) March 12, 2025
The key stumbling block, and why closing LIV is at least somewhat in the discussion, is that LIV has failed. Why would the PGAT or any tour build it into a future golf structure when players, media, spectators, have consistently turned it down. Its hard to see a purpose for it, if not as a touring circus but devoid of serious competion, in a restoration of some of its golfers to the regular tours. One would struggle to count ten in LIV today who would genuinely add to the PGA. For sure, Rahm, Koepka, Bryson, would add to it in a big way. But overall, LIV is bringing little to the party. Money, yes. But I think what we have seen is that money only sustains the front if, or superficially, a tour. Closing it down fully, while tough for some to accept such a crystalising of its failure, would seem the critical step for a resolution, and the PIF buying its way into pro golf proper.
The key stumbling block, and why closing LIV is at least somewhat in the discussion, is that LIV has failed. Why would the PGAT or any tour build it into a future golf structure when players, media, spectators, have consistently turned it down. Its hard to see a purpose for it, if not as a touring circus but devoid of serious competion, in a restoration of some of its golfers to the regular tours. One would struggle to count ten in LIV today who would genuinely add to the PGA. For sure, Rahm, Koepka, Bryson, would add to it in a big way. But overall, LIV is bringing little to the party. Money, yes. But I think what we have seen is that money only sustains the front if, or superficially, a tour. Closing it down fully, while tough for some to accept such a crystalising of its failure, would seem the critical step for a resolution, and the PIF buying its way into pro golf proper.
I dont think the PIF is a charity, with a mission to just bring a show to towns golf doesnt normally play. Its drive, we reasonably presume, was for LIV to make money by being a serious top of the tree global golf tour to equal or pass the PGAT.When it comes to LIVs “success or failure”
It will depend on the metric used
If the idea is to get top players playing outside the US then they have had success there
If it’s about putting on events in other areas where they can see the top players then they have managed to find some level of success there
The key stumbling block, and why closing LIV is at least somewhat in the discussion, is that LIV has failed. Why would the PGAT or any tour build it into a future golf structure when players, media, spectators, have consistently turned it down. Its hard to see a purpose for it, if not as a touring circus but devoid of serious competion, in a restoration of some of its golfers to the regular tours. One would struggle to count ten in LIV today who would genuinely add to the PGA. For sure, Rahm, Koepka, Bryson, would add to it in a big way. But overall, LIV is bringing little to the party. Money, yes. But I think what we have seen is that money only sustains the front if, or superficially, a tour. Closing it down fully, while tough for some to accept such a crystalising of its failure, would seem the critical step for a resolution, and the PIF buying its way into pro golf proper.
The supposed unlimited firepower of the PIF has been touted since the beginning as the argument for this being an unwinnable war for the PGAT. But 4 years down the road, it is the PGAT that is continuing with some, but nonethless light damage. LIV, has not launched in any meaningful way. It didnt attract a credible number of top golfer to provide meaningful top level tournaments. Why not ? Why didnt the PIF unload the gun they supposedly have, and indeed consign the PGAT to history. If it could have, it would have surely, especially when it was clear it wasnt attracting quality golfers en masse, and is in an illusory holding pattern as a tour. Partly I guess, that while the PIF has phenomenal resources, they are not all, nor anything like, earmarked for golf. Within, or even maybe beyond its originally budgeting, it has failed.You heard that the PGAT are laying off staff as they struggle to meet their budgets?
Yasir can consign the PGAT to the history books if he wants to.
The DP tour have been a big loser in all of this, it’s really hurt European golf in my opinion.
Like Phil said, we need golf worldwide not just a closed shop in the USA.
I’m not sure of the financial situation the PGA are in, but is it sustainable with the amount of prize money now.
Do the metrics add up….
LIV is clearly running at a loss with signing on fees and superb prize money, they are a young company though and would be interesting to see their business model plan, something we will never know I suppose.
You heard that the PGAT are laying off staff as they struggle to meet their budgets?
Yasir can consign the PGAT to the history books if he wants to.
I dont think the PIF is a charity, with a mission to just bring a show to towns golf doesnt normally play. Its drive, we reasonably presume, was for LIV to make money by being a serious top of the tree global golf tour to equal or pass the PGAT.
That was its positioning. It has waved hundreds of millions more at players but they have turned it down.
Partly its own doing, with the teams, the LOUDER and the transparent manufactured/bot social media effort, partly, that golf revenue is still very USA-centric. Sure, due to its isolation, pent up demand will deliver on course spectators in Australia. But the rest of the world is just not putting up the type of money that US sponsors are willing to.
Taking it around the world sounds fine. But if the rest of the world doesnt want it in the first place, thats a bit of a fly in the ointment.
Your hope that LIV will fold simply because it's not operating as a profitable golf tour is misguided.
The PIF fund is set to surpass $1 trillion later this year. While the money so far invested in LIV may seem staggering from the PGA Tour's perspective—more than three times the SSG investment—it’s essentially a drop in the ocean for the PIF.
This isn’t just about building a rival golf tour; there’s a much larger strategic play at work.
The value Yassir and the PIF are seeking extends far beyond profit and loss in the golf world.