Bunkers GUR & a fair drop

[KenL]

At my club excellent work is being carried out rebuilding bunkers.

If your ball is in the bunker you drop at the NPR. This can be on a downslope off a very tight lie shot over the bunker to the pin.

I ended up with 2 impossible shots this morning, frosty ground did not help! I ended up blobbing both holes when I would have had a reasonable chance of par from the bunkers.

Can anyone suggest a fairer relief situation that would still be within the rules?

Could each bunker under repair have a drop zone in a fairer position for example?

Thanks

 

[rulefan]

Has the whole bunker been declared to be GUR or only part of it?

 

[KenL]

The whole of the bunkers that are being worked on are GUR. They have a white line around them protecting new turf and either a sign in them or GUR painted.

 

[jim8flog]

The rule is the rule. Provided there is sufficient room to drop ball the club would not be allowed to have drop zones.

I would not see it as being fair to all players that you get a good clear lie just because there is a bunker between you and the flag.

There is no guarantee that you would have got out of the bunker in the first place simply because you could not prejudge what sort of lie you have had in the bunker. E.G you could have been at the bottom of somebody's footprint 6" below the surface.

 

[rulefan]

The whole of the bunkers that are being worked on are GUR. They have a white line around them protecting new turf and either a sign in them or GUR painted.

As the whole bunker has been declared GUR then it automatically becomes Through the Green and it is no longer a Bunker.

As it is Through the Green the relief under 25-1 b(i) is available.

If you take relief you must play from outside the GUR.

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-25,d25-13

Note:
In your OP you say "If your ball is in the bunker you drop at the NPR." That is not quite correct. If the whole bunker is not GUR You drop within 1cl of the npr, not nearer the hole but in the bunker.

 

[KenL]

Thanks rulefan.

So I believe I dropped correctly today as per rule b (i).

I assume that this rule is fixed and that a fairer drop zone can't be put in place?

Honestly, some of the NPRs would cause Seve to double bogey at best!

 

[KenL]

Jim8flog- your thoughts about being in a footprint make no sense to me!

 

[Green Bay Hacker]

As this thread is about bunkers being GUR, could someone please clarify what should happen in this case. I was playing match play today at an away course today and went in a bunker. There was water in the bunker so I took a drop, still in bunker and played the shot. I tried to rake the bunker but it was solid and as I put the rake down my opponent pointed out a GUR sign lying flat in the bunker that was virtually covered with wet sand/mud. Should I have replayed the shot from outside the bunker or carried on?

 

[duncan mackie]

Thanks rulefan.

So I believe I dropped correctly today as per rule b (i).

I assume that this rule is fixed and that a fairer drop zone can't be put in place?

Honestly, some of the NPRs would cause Seve to double bogey at best!

Drop zone could be prkvided if the committee deem it appropriate. Clearly the committee don't agree worth you.
In fairness you will often find that the fairness is a function of the pin position and you would need multiple drop zones for pin positions. As such it's basically swings and roundabouts..

 

[duncan mackie]

As this thread is about bunkers being GUR, could someone please clarify what should happen in this case. I was playing match play today at an away course today and went in a bunker. There was water in the bunker so I took a drop, still in bunker and played the shot. I tried to rake the bunker but it was solid and as I put the rake down my opponent pointed out a GUR sign lying flat in the bunker that was virtually covered with wet sand/mud. Should I have replayed the shot from outside the bunker or carried on?

What ever you agreed with your opponent at the time stands ie if you agreed it was caaualnwater and you would drop and play thats it. That you (both) subsequently established it at gur isnt relevant.

 

[KenL]

Drop zone could be prkvided if the committee deem it appropriate. Clearly the committee don't agree worth you.
In fairness you will often find that the fairness is a function of the pin position and you would need multiple drop zones for pin positions. As such it's basically swings and roundabouts..

It's not about the pin position at all. From the bunkers, unless you just fall in one side, you will need to drop on a downslope. I can get out of bunkers easily and have a decent up and down record. From these drops on the slopes and tights lies you have pretty much zero chance of an up and down. The GUR bunker is a serious disadvantage, I'd much rather go in a bunker.

 

[Green Bay Hacker]

What ever you agreed with your opponent at the time stands ie if you agreed it was caaualnwater and you would drop and play thats it. That you (both) subsequently established it at gur isnt relevant.

What actually happened was that I cleaned up the GUR sign in the bunker and replaced it while my opponent went and retrieved my ball and I replayed the shot from behind the bunker. Didn't feel right that I got to do that but it was at his suggestion.

 

[rulefan]

If your ball is in the bunker you drop at the NPR. This can be on a downslope off a very tight lie shot over the bunker to the pin.

Re reading all your posts has me confused.

Do I now understand that you originally dropped correctly outside the GUR (ie non bunker) at the npr rather than within 1cl of the npr?

And that you are complaining that the drop was on a downslope?

What sort of lie would you have had if the ball had simply stopped just short of the bunker on the downslope?
You seem to want a DZ for a free drop that gives a better lie than being in the bunker.

Have I got the picture wrong? If so, my apologies but can you please explain a bit more

 

[rulie]

It's not about the pin position at all. From the bunkers, unless you just fall in one side, you will need to drop on a downslope. I can get out of bunkers easily and have a decent up and down record. From these drops on the slopes and tights lies you have pretty much zero chance of an up and down. The GUR bunker is a serious disadvantage, I'd much rather go in a bunker.

Remember that you can always play from GUR unless the committee in charge of the competition has implemented a local Rule (or CoC) saying that relief MUST be taken.

 

[atticusfinch]

My course once formed a "beautification committee" where a bunch of non golfer ladies planted flower beds all over the course with no regard for how they would would affect play or consulting the architect. Shortly after they started I landed in one and practically destroyed it trying to get out. No GUR or other no-play rule had been implemented. (I probably would have ignored it anyway,,,I was really mad about it.)

I felt great satisfaction when I did that. :clap:

 

[KenL]

Re reading all your posts has me confused.

Do I now understand that you originally dropped correctly outside the GUR (ie non bunker) at the npr rather than within 1cl of the npr?

And that you are complaining that the drop was on a downslope?

What sort of lie would you have had if the ball had simply stopped just short of the bunker on the downslope?
You seem to want a DZ for a free drop that gives a better lie than being in the bunker.

Have I got the picture wrong? If so, my apologies but can you please explain a bit more

Yes, I dropped correctly. I was asking if there was an option within the rules that allowed a "fair" relief drop. I had two virtually impossible places to play from yesterday after dropping from the bunker. I would have had a much easier situation if I been in the bunker even if the ball was in a poor lie in the bunker.

 

[KenL]

Remember that you can always play from GUR unless the committee in charge of the competition has implemented a local Rule (or CoC) saying that relief MUST be taken.

Our local rule is that you must take relief from an area marked GUR.

 

[rulefan]

Yes, I dropped correctly. I was asking if there was an option within the rules that allowed a "fair" relief drop. I had two virtually impossible places to play from yesterday after dropping from the bunker. I would have had a much easier situation if I been in the bunker even if the ball was in a poor lie in the bunker.

Who said golf was fair?

 

[jim8flog]

Jim8flog- your thoughts about being in a footprint make no sense to me!

The point I make is a simple one. I too consider myself to be a fairly good bunker player but every so often you get a lie which it virtually impossible to get up and down from or even out of the bunker. Your assumption is that you will not be in such a position if you went in to the bunker in the first place.

 

[patricks148]

this used to be an issue at Nairn. Over winter 5 or 6 greenside bunkers were re revetted at a time and they would all be GUR. so you had to take NPR. all that's changed now as all closely mown areas you have to use a mat anyway