Bunker full out water - ball on banking

[simwood2]

At the weekend we had lots of bunkers GUR as they were full of water. However on one hole my ball came to rest in the grassy (not riveted) face of the bunker meaning my stance would have been in the bunker which was about 3 inches deep of water. This bunker was not one that was GUR. What were my options (take my shoes and socks off and go paddling, relief under casual/standing water or something else?)

 

[Jack_bfc]

Gortex shoes and sealskinz socks

 

[atticusfinch]

It isn't clear whether the ball was in the bunker or not. This is the definition. Grass-covered ground bordering or within a bunker, including a stacked turf face (whether grass-covered or earthen), is not part of the bunker. A wall or lip of the bunker not covered with grass is part of the bunker. The margin of a bunker extends vertically downwards, but not upwards.

You are standing in casual water so you are entitled to relief. The kind of relief depends on where the ball is. Read 25-1bi&ii for the options.

 

[simwood2]

Thanks atticus sounds like the ball was not classed as being in the bunker so I guess it's a drop at nearest point of relief - although the course was that wet there wasn't really any where that was dry!!! So was I right in dropping at the closest point that gave me the most relief?

 

[Colin L]

Thanks atticus sounds like the ball was not classed as being in the bunker so I guess it's a drop at nearest point of relief - although the course was that wet there wasn't really any where that was dry!!! So was I right in dropping at the closest point that gave me the most relief?

Not "most relief." Full relief. It is only if your ball is in a bunker and full relief is not possible that you can take maximum relief - within the bunker.

 

[duncan mackie]

So was I right in dropping at the closest point that gave me the most relief?

basically no

you establish the nearest point of relief, which will be the nearest point that provides full relief and isn't in a hazard or on a green.

you then drop the ball so that it first strikes the course within 1 cl of that point at a point that complies with the above

then you review where it finally comes to rest against the parameters set out in 20-2

i suspect this may be what you meant, but for the sake of clarity for others that may read the thread

 

[simwood2]

Thanks guys - i probably took a wrong drop then as the ground was saturated in all directions for a good 20-30 metres so just found the "driest" spot and dropped there. Probably shouldn't have been playing as it was so wet....

 

[stevelev]

If your ball enters the face of a bunker no matter how deep it goes it is still classed as being in the bunker. Relief can be taken within the bunker by eans of dropping and incurring a shot for relief as unplayable.

If your stance to play the ball as plugged means you are in casual water, you can use the rules to your benefit and take a drop at nearest point of relief remaining within the bunker.

You can under unplayable take the ball back to place where you last played it from or in a straight line from where it lies to the pin.

Your best bet is to always carry rules book or download app.

Its a minefield, and I'm pretty new to the game but its surprising how many golfers get rules wrong, so having the rules with you helps you not only get the ruling but teach others at the same time.
If in doubt play 2 balls till you finish the hole, keep both scores and get a decision from the committee as to which score to use.

 

[Foxholer]

Not "most relief." Full relief. It is only if your ball is in a bunker and full relief is not possible that you can take maximum relief - within the bunker.

basically no

you establish the nearest point of relief, which will be the nearest point that provides full relief and isn't in a hazard or on a green.

I think when he talked about 'most' relief, the OP was meaning least wet/driest being NPoR as opposed to farthest! The fact that was 20-30 metres away is by the by - but suggests that the course was almost certainly 'unplayable'!

@stevelev. While you are correct on the 2 situations, neither was relevant to this one. And Duncan has probably already replied with his 'playing 2 balls is a can of worms' comment - also correct as there's a definite procedure that must be followed for it to be valid.

 

[stevelev]

I think when he talked about 'most' relief, the OP was meaning least wet/driest being NPoR as opposed to farthest! The fact that was 20-30 metres away is by the by - but suggests that the course was almost certainly 'unplayable'!

@stevelev. While you are correct on the 2 situations, neither was relevant to this one. And Duncan has probably already replied with his 'playing 2 balls is a can of worms' comment - also correct as there's a definite procedure that must be followed for it to be valid.

AS much as I respect another mans opinion. Both points I make are relevant. The OP asked what his options where, I gave him options as he requested in his 1st post.

Again thanks for pointing out that I was at first correctbut then not relevant #confusethematter

 

[duncan mackie]

If your ball enters the face of a bunker no matter how deep it goes it is still classed as being in the bunker. Relief can be taken within the bunker by eans of dropping and incurring a shot for relief as unplayable.

If your stance to play the ball as plugged means you are in casual water, you can use the rules to your benefit and take a drop at nearest point of relief remaining within the bunker.

You can under unplayable take the ball back to place where you last played it from or in a straight line from where it lies to the pin.


If in doubt play 2 balls till you finish the hole, keep both scores and get a decision from the committee as to which score to use.

no idea what post 9 was about but leaving that to one side...

1. the OP clearly outlines a situation where he ball is not in the bunker, as explained in posts #3 and #4
2. not sure what you are meaning with the bold bit as it's neither a full list of the options available under 25-1b (ii) for casual water in a bunker nor 28 where the ball is in the bunker.
3. again, you reference dropping at the NPR which isn't necessarily the case. whilst it may be a valid dropping position you have within 1 club length of that point (such as it complies with the requirements of 20-2

I agree that proceeding under 3-3 is a good idea if unsure how to proceed - in this specific case at least a modicum of knowledge will be required to find any appropriate procedure!

 

[rulefan]

"my ball came to rest in the grassy (not riveted) face of the bunker"

If your ball enters the face of a bunker no matter how deep it goes it is still classed as being in the bunker.

Grass-covered ground bordering or within a bunker, including a stacked turf face (whether grass-covered or earthen), is not part of the bunker.

 

[Foxholer]

AS much as I respect another mans opinion. Both points I make are relevant. The OP asked what his options where, I gave him options as he requested in his 1st post.

Again thanks for pointing out that I was at first correctbut then not relevant #confusethematter

There's a slight interpretation issue as to what 'came to rest in' means - that only the OP can resolve. I have interpreted it as 'settled on/in the grass of the face' (as the title also suggests) whereas you appear to have interpreted it as 'plugged in the grassy face'. your points are not relevant if my interpretation is correct, but they are if yours is.

Edit: and as Rulefan and AF have pointed out the bit in your statement about having to remain in the bunker is wrong as the ball is not in the bunker. I hadn't check them properly as i deemed the not relevant.

 

[stevelev]

"my ball came to rest in the grassy (not riveted) face of the bunker"



Grass-covered ground bordering or within a bunker, including a stacked turf face (whether grass-covered or earthen), is not part of the bunker.

I stand fully corrected and thank people for educating me, I was right that it is a minefield though. Lol

 

[rulefan]

I was right that it is a minefield though. Lol

[h=2]Richmond Golf Club Temporary Rules, 1941[/h]1. Players are asked to collect bomb and shrapnel splinters to save these causing damage to the mowing machines.
2. In competitions, during gunfire or while bombs are falling, players may take shelter without penalty for ceasing play.
3. The position of known delayed action bombs are marked by red flags at a reasonable, but not guaranteed, safe distance therefrom.
4. Shrapnel and/or bomb splinters on the fairways or in bunkers, within a club's length of a ball, may be moved without penalty, and no penalty shall be incurred if a ball is thereby caused to move accidentally.
5. A ball moved by enemy action may be replaced or, if lost or destroyed, a ball may be dropped not nearer the hole without penalty.
6. A ball lying in a crater may be lifted and dropped not nearer the hole, preserving the line to the hole, without penalty.
7. A player whose stroke is affected by the simultaneous explosion of a bomb may play another ball. Penalty one stroke.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

[h=2]Richmond Golf Club Temporary Rules, 1941[/h]1. Players are asked to collect bomb and shrapnel splinters to save these causing damage to the mowing machines.
2. In competitions, during gunfire or while bombs are falling, players may take shelter without penalty for ceasing play.
3. The position of known delayed action bombs are marked by red flags at a reasonable, but not guaranteed, safe distance therefrom.
4. Shrapnel and/or bomb splinters on the fairways or in bunkers, within a club's length of a ball, may be moved without penalty, and no penalty shall be incurred if a ball is thereby caused to move accidentally.
5. A ball moved by enemy action may be replaced or, if lost or destroyed, a ball may be dropped not nearer the hole without penalty.
6. A ball lying in a crater may be lifted and dropped not nearer the hole, preserving the line to the hole, without penalty.
7. A player whose stroke is affected by the simultaneous explosion of a bomb may play another ball. Penalty one stroke.

:thup: