Brian Ashton did he deserve it?

[Nico]

As a Taff who even wore the shirt,I went on radio 5 yesterday to defend him.

What a bunch of snakes and back stabbers,makes the WRU look like saints! !

 

[GB72]

Agree that he was very harshly treated but not sure he was ever the right man for the job. By his own admission he was better in the background coaching. That said, he did step up to the mark in one of the darkest periods in recent English rugby history and managed to get us to a World Cup Final. I think that the position in the 6 Nations flattered us as I do not feel that we were the second best team.
Sadly, this has become the way in rugby. New Zealand have sacked winning coaches and my team, the Leicester Tigers, showed a similar lack of compassion when the sacked Deano on the back of 1 bad season.

I do not think Ashton deserved the treatment he received but I do think a change was necessary to get a coaching team in place that can build to the next world cup.

 

[Nico]

Cant disagree with any of that.

Deano is one of the few I wish had been born on God's side of the dyke!!

Breaks my heart to say it but I look forward to reading Brian Moore these days too.

I have spent too long in Surrey!!!

 

[madandra]

As a Jock I feel the spin doctors are behind this episode. Did real England fans expect to win the 6 nations? I don't think they did. I think it is another example of the pen pushers employing someone who can deflect the sh1t from them.

 

[Nico]

Good point,but expectations are high and so they should be.

Enagland have more 1'st class players than NZ and Oz combined.

Biggest under achievers in World Rugby.

 

[toonarmy]

Biggest under achievers in World Rugby.

When you've been World Number 1, beaten Australia and New Zealand in their own back yard and won a World Cup, then you can talk.

Until then, try and work out how to beat Fiji...

New Zealand are without question the biggest underachievers given their total inability to win a World Cup after the sham of the home '87 event.

Ashton should never have been anything other than a coach, evidenced by his excellent previous work with the academy. Baron and Andrew have shown themselves to be weasels of the highest order.

To think, I used to hero worship Andrew (that drop goal against Oz...)

 

[USER1999]

Toss up between NZ, England and Ireland for underachievement award.

Ashton and Robinson were never going to work.

Treatment of both was shoddy and underhand. Not sure Jonno will be any different. They had the best man, Woodward, and let him go.

 

[toonarmy]

I'll say it again, in what possible sphere is 2 World Cup finals in succession, with one victory, underachievement? In fact, we are the only team to have ever made it to two consecutive finals.

Throw in 5 Nations/6 Nations wins, Grand Slams, Rugby World Cup 7s etc.

I'd love to know what is classed as achievement then...

 

[HTL]

Who did you play for Nico, I’m originally from Neath and now living in Surrey.

Aston was never the right man for the job and the success he has was down to the players in the team.

The new appointment of M.J and him appointing attack / defence / skills coaches I feel is going to lead to a too many chiefs situation.


England’s biggest mistake was letting Edwards over the severn bridge. 3 years you have let him go for!

 

[Nico]

Played a few for Neath,before you were born!!

You would probably remember my mate Adrian Varney more than me,I got crocked in my first season(ACL,still not got one).

 

[madandra]

Am I right in thinking MJ is a huge American Football fan? Maybe this explains his DEEEE fence and OFF ence system.

 

[GB72]

he is a big american football fan so maybe. I think he is the right man for the job, afterall Woodward was an organiser, motivator and manager with a team a skilled coaches behind him. Johnno should try and recruit Pat Howard to coach the backs, bring Dave Aldred back as a kicking coach (after all most of our best kickers stil use him anyway) and then we may have a chance of success.

 

[theeaglehunter]

Personally I think that Ashton should not have been axed, and that making a job for Martin Johnson is more of a publicity stunt/ jobs for the boys affair. As much as I respect him as a rugby player, a captain/ leader and a person (I have met him) I honestly can't see what Johnson will bring to the table, other than his personality and mere presence-hopefully this will be enough for a positive impact though.

 

[viscount17]

Johnson is not being appointed for his coaching abilities, which is why he is getting a team who can work with him. He is a motivator, very probably a skilled tactician and organiser, and, essential nowadays, a very good speaker. This is not far off Woodward's role, who did little hands-on coaching.

Ashton, a good man probably appointed to the wrong job (not untypical of industry), but as you rightly say, treated shabbily.

 

[Wilf]

I would say we didn't go far enough and there should have been a complete clear out. It doesn't matter who you put in as manager if the same specialist coaches remain underneath. I assume from the press that if Edwards had been available that Ford may well have gone.

The performances against Italy and Scotland this year were devoid of idea, passion, or any real structure.

The WC final was gained on reverting to beating teams up, up front which I have no problem with but the Boks with their second row and general power in the tight could match us on that so it came down to being able to create / score tries which we were unable to do once forced to chase the game after conceding silly penalties. 1 moment of genius from Tait in 80 odd minutes.

If we had had a functioning creative back divison the Australia game would not have been anywhere near as close given the front 5's dominance.

I think the frustration comes in that there seems to be no real progress and the same old problems still seem to be there i.e. lack of numbers at breakdowns produces slow ball, to many pick and goes when quick ball is actually generated, conservative team selections, allied to some of the creative fast attacking rugby the same players seem able to create in the Premiership. Something somewhere was wrong.

Hopefully Johnson will be his own man, bring in people like Howard, Catt who seem to produce attacking gameplans, trust a bit in some of the talent available Kennedy, SD, Tait, Stevens, Hartley, Care etc Actually picking people based on form would be a refreshing change to start with.