Brexit - The negotiations.

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drdel said:
The legislation is there in case there is no agreement so there is time to enable other legislation.

It is allowing for lead times in the planning/enabling of Parliamentary time for SIs, Acts etc.

Has the EU has not 'welched' on the Canada offer Barnier tabled early in the process.
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The withdrawal agreement was signed and sealed, and the UK Parliament passed it with 330 Tory votes.

I don't think any Canada deal was agreed, the UK seemed to hold out for a number of pluses.

But if you want to compare promises made with actual outcomes, bring it on. I have loads for you to chew on.
 
Loads of UK jobs went to other states because the euro has been kept undervalued and through the grants and subsidies used to entice our industries to Poland, Spain and others.

Those same incentives that the EU now wish to prevent the UK using, even though they never sanctioned the members who broke the rules, the UK honoured the rules and got shafted.

The EU fishing industry has received grants fir the large factory trawlers that now hoover anything in the English Channel.

Wake up we have been an honourable member implementing the rules, on worker safety, environmental controls, waste treatment etc etc. Many others have not and we have been royally screwed in the process
 
Ethan said:
The withdrawal agreement was signed and sealed, and the UK Parliament passed it with 330 Tory votes.

I don't think any Canada deal was agreed, the UK seemed to hold out for a number of pluses.

But if you want to compare promises made with actual outcomes, bring it on. I have loads for you to chew on.
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I have opinions which you don't share and I do not feel the need engage in a tit for tat. What's with the aggression every time I post?
 
drdel said:
Loads of UK jobs went to other states because the euro has been kept undervalued and through the grants and subsidies used to entice our industries to Poland, Spain and others.

Those same incentives that the EU now wish to prevent the UK using, even though they never sanctioned the members who broke the rules, the UK honoured the rules and got shafted.

The EU fishing industry has received grants fir the large factory trawlers that now hoover anything in the English Channel.

Wake up we have been an honourable member implementing the rules, on worker safety, environmental controls, waste treatment etc etc. Many others have not and we have been royally screwed in the process
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Nonsense. Wake up and read something other than the diarrhoeal propaganda from poisonous Leave EU organisations that are conning you and loads of other people to serve the interests of those funding the campaigns.

The U.K. benefitted greatly from EU membership with lots of companies locating their EU HQs here. And now it is about to get a severe economic kicking.
 
drdel said:
I have opinions which you don't share and I do not feel the need engage in a tit for tat. What's with the aggression every time I post?
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Please. You attack me frequently. You asked me about Canada deals which Barnier had mentioned (but not promised) and I countered that there were plenty of other promises made, which you knew I meant were from Brexiters. No reason to get all upset about that unless you are trying to distract.
 
drdel said:
Loads of UK jobs went to other states because the euro has been kept undervalued and through the grants and subsidies used to entice our industries to Poland, Spain and others.

Those same incentives that the EU now wish to prevent the UK using, even though they never sanctioned the members who broke the rules, the UK honoured the rules and got shafted.

The EU fishing industry has received grants fir the large factory trawlers that now hoover anything in the English Channel.

Wake up we have been an honourable member implementing the rules, on worker safety, environmental controls, waste treatment etc etc. Many others have not and we have been royally screwed in the process
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Land Rover and the Czech Republic. The loans, grants and NOT subsidies played a big part in get LR to move to the Czech Republic. However, vastly reduced local taxes might be considered subsidies... The EU investigated it in depth and, shock of shocks, no rules were broken - like hell they were!

EU 'v' UK fishing. A simple exercise would be to look at photographs of the major fishing ports in the UK, going back 40 years. In truth, you won't see a massive difference. However, bear in mind that 70% of the boats offloading into the likes of Grimsby are now 'other' EU country flagged.

The offer made by the UK on fishing was accepted by Barnier almost 3 months ago. Macron said no, and Barnier went back to unfettered access.

Implementing rules; that's quite an interesting one. The UK hasn't correctly implemented every rule, and has been severely fined for it. Most of the southern EU states + France have written the rules into their laws but then just ignored many of them. And when fines have been levied against them, a number of countries have refused to pay. Environmental Standards and waste management; I can't speak for any country but my own experiences here in Spain lolololol. And you can add in employee protection - the laws exist but they are very, very rarely implemented.
 
Maybe posters should not read the posts in an aggressive style as I don’t see either of you posting in that style, certainly not tit for tat.
 
Ethan said:
Nonsense. Wake up and read something other than the diarrhoeal propaganda from poisonous Leave EU organisations that are conning you and loads of other people to serve the interests of those funding the campaigns.

The U.K. benefitted greatly from EU membership with lots of companies locating their EU HQs here. And now it is about to get a severe economic kicking.
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Really! More personal insults and OTT derogatory comments about those who dare to think or voted differently to you.

Since you have no evidence how the UK may have developed outside the EU your claim the UK benefitted 'greatly' is entirely without substance .
 
I'm waiting for someone.....please....anyone.....to "change" their minds about Brexit (pssst, I have....but don't tell anybody). The same people who hate Brexit still hate Brexit........the same people who think it's the Second Coming still think it's coming. I'm pretty sure some things with Brexit will be better...other bits worse..... People who KNOW they have the answer and what will happen 5 years from now......you should be betting on the horses instead and get rich.
 
banjofred said:
I'm waiting for someone.....please....anyone.....to "change" their minds about Brexit (pssst, I have....but don't tell anybody). The same people who hate Brexit still hate Brexit........the same people who think it's the Second Coming still think it's coming. I'm pretty sure some things with Brexit will be better...other bits worse..... People who KNOW they have the answer and what will happen 5 years from now......you should be betting on the horses instead and get rich.
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Those who voted remain are still correct so they won’t change their mind and those who voted Brexit won’t admit they’re wrong so it’s sort of pointless to ask anyone to change their mind.
 
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drdel said:
Really! More personal insults and OTT derogatory comments about those who dare to think or voted differently to you.

Since you have no evidence how the UK may have developed outside the EU your claim the UK benefitted 'greatly' is entirely without substance .
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Evidence? After you, mon ami.

In science, there is a saying that extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. Just yesterday, Johnson said that the UK would 'prosper mightily' even with no deal. Like every other thing that he says, he offered no evidence whatsoever for that claim. Most economists (apart from you and Patrick Minford) think that the likelihood of the UK doing better outside the EU rather than in, even with a deal, is wildly hopeful if not utterly delusional.

There is no doubt that there has been a flight of business and capital away from the UK, but little evidence of inward investment of anything close to a balancing amount, and that US trade deal looks like a distant hope.

And the remark that, in essence, that because there is not a parallel alternate reality against which something can be compared, therefore nothing can be proven, is curious. I do hope you will apply that same logic to your opinions from now on. You will therefore never say that the UK would do better outside than in since we do not have a controlled alternate universe within which to observe the diferences.
 
drdel said:
Really! More personal insults and OTT derogatory comments about those who dare to think or voted differently to you.

Since you have no evidence how the UK may have developed outside the EU your claim the UK benefitted 'greatly' is entirely without substance .
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No personal insult at all, unless you are a propagandist from Leave EU. Are you?
 
Kellfire said:
Those who voted remain are still correct so they won’t change their mind and those who voted Brexit won’t admit they’re wrong so it’s sort of pointless to ask anyone to change their most.
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I'm assuming that's an auto correct issue? I've gone from being a Remain person to wanting to Leave. I don't get to vote.....so kind of irrelevant.
 
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Ethan said:
The UK Govt doesn't care about fishing other than as an element of their political brand. It doesn't contribute very much to the economy (0.12% of the UK economy, 24000 jobs). More than half of all English fishing rights were sold to mostly European companies in the 1990s. The UK fleets mostly catch stuff the UK consumer doesn't eat so therefore must be exported, and most of the haddock and cod eaten here are imported.

It is all basically a throwback to the old 'war on the seas', Britannia rules the waves mentality.

In contrast, the UK Govt was happy to take a dump on the UK life sciences industry, which is at least 20x bigger than fishing, by failing to remain in the European Medicines Agency or keep the EMA HQ in the UK, both of which they could have done. The move of the EMA HQ alone probably dwarfs the economic effects of fishing, never mind all the companies which have relocated HQs and programmes to the EU. I get calls from recruiters all the time, part of being a long serving pharma medic. There has been a very clear shift out of the UK. I used to get about 2 calls regarding UK positions for every 1 in Europe, Now it is 3:1 the other way, with Switzerland (not in the EU, but in the EMA) and Benelux leading the way. Every company I know has also shifted work out of the UK, sometimes moving people, sometimes losing people.
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How soon before you and @hacker are called anti-nationals and not wanting for UK to succeed? Please dont post such dire facts or reminders of what was promised v/s reality. It is easier to comment on complex threads like Trump or Broken dishwashers than such simple life changing threads...

PS: We have left and we are taking our ball with us. This is what the people voted for (some may argue they did not know what they voted for). It does not matter if the Govt (IDS) has rejected its OWN WA as bad, even though he voted for it. Much like the Republicans voting against Trump impeachment after saying he was bad. the Govt has the majority to do it.
 
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