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Brexit - The negotiations.

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doublebogey7 said:
What a load of tosh, it was the brexiteers who said this would be the easiest negotiation in history, yet it was those saying you lot were wrong who dont understand. Wait till you find out what the USA want from us in a TA
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what a load of horse manure. This has nothing to do with brexiteers or remaiers. it is about sorting our a decent bi-lateral trade deal. Wake up and get with the programme rather than bleeting on about a campaign that is done and concluded. We are now fighting for trade deals for the good of our future not playing an "i told you so" routine. Anyone who believes than any trade deal will be easy priobably also believes in Father Christmas. You either back sound trade logic from the UK or you sit in the moaning corner
 
PNWokingham said:
what a load of horse manure. This has nothing to do with brexiteers or remaiers. it is about sorting our a decent bi-lateral trade deal. Wake up and get with the programme rather than bleeting on about a campaign that is done and concluded. We are now fighting for trade deals for the good of our future not playing an "i told you so" routine. Anyone who believes than any trade deal will be easy priobably also believes in Father Christmas. You either back sound trade logic from the UK or you sit in the moaning corner
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You are joking of course...that any who believed what Tory Ministers and Leading Leave campaigners told us must also believe in Father Christmas...so you admit they lied to us? So come on down Dr Liam Fox, David Davies et al. You're all liars and spun us more than one, according to some of those who followed your lead to the ballot box
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
You are joking of course...that any who believed what Tory Ministers and Leading Leave campaigners told us must also believe in Father Christmas...so you admit they lied to us? So come on down Dr Liam Fox, David Davies et al. You're all liars and spun us more than one, according to some of those who followed your lead to the ballot box
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So, apart from the childish , insults and derogatory comments, was there a comment you wished to make that might contribute to the moving the debate forward?
 
drdel said:
So, apart from the childish , insults and derogatory comments, was there a comment you wished to make that might contribute to the moving the debate forward?
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So what of what I posted was 'childish , insults and derogatory comments'? I was responding to a post that stated that - if you believed those who told us that a trade deal would be easy then you'd also be likely to believe in Father Christmas...

But then I wouldn't expect some to realise the absurdity of that comparison given so many of the electorate clearly DID believe such as Fox and Davies (Johnson, Farage and many others). Those who believed must then be the childish ones as adults tend to not believe in Father Christmas - we now all know it is a deceit to keep us happy and behaving when we were young and innocent. If it was never going to be easy, then why were we told that it would be. If I am told something that those telling me know to be untrue - then I am being lied to.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
So what of what I posted was 'childish , insults and derogatory comments'? I was responding to a post that stated that - if you believed those who told us that a trade deal would be easy then you'd also be likely to believe in Father Christmas...

But then I wouldn't expect some to realise the absurdity of that comparison given so many of the electorate clearly DID believe such as Fox and Davies (Johnson, Farage and many others). Those who believed must then be the childish ones as adults tend to not believe in Father Christmas - we now all know it is a deceit to keep us happy and behaving when we were young and innocent. If it was never going to be easy, then why were we told and lied to that it would be.
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Irrespective of whether you're right or not, and I'm not saying you're wrong, it was over 4 years ago. Everyone knows who said it, and everyone knows its long since proven to be false. What relevance does it have to now? What point is there in even raising it now?
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
So what of what I posted was 'childish , insults and derogatory comments'? I was responding to a post that stated that - if you believed those who told us that a trade deal would be easy then you'd also be likely to believe in Father Christmas...

But then I wouldn't expect some to realise the absurdity of that comparison given so many of the electorate clearly DID believe such as Fox and Davies (Johnson, Farage and many others). Those who believed must then be the childish ones as adults tend to not believe in Father Christmas - we now all know it is a deceit to keep us happy and behaving when we were young and innocent. If it was never going to be easy, then why were we told that it would be. If I am told something that those telling me know to be untrue - then I am being lied to.
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I said "...was there a comment you wished to make that might contribute to the moving the debate forward? " Your retreat to years past and the comments you now make have, I think, proved my point.

Let's hope the No: 10 'informal' meeting tonight reveals some grown-up progress.
 
So the Chancellor has cut VAT. I am trying to jog my memory... i thought the Brexit campaigners always said that the EU would not allow us to cut VAT on our own. So has things changed? Have we already left without telling anyone? or is it was just another lie? i need a cup of tea
 
Mudball said:
So the Chancellor has cut VAT. I am trying to jog my memory... i thought the Brexit campaigners always said that the EU would not allow us to cut VAT on our own. So has things changed? Have we already left without telling anyone? or is it was just another lie? i need a cup of tea
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Of course we have formally left the EU, but still being in the transition period I think we are still having to comply with all or most EU rules and directives. Clearly only most level playing field constraints if we are changing VAT levels unilaterally. Surprised we can do that given the fuss made over VAT on some female hygiene products.

Anyway - things will all be fine - though already it is disappointing recent (last month) news about the plans for UK to be building our own GPS satellite system given UK won't be part of EU's Galileo programme - as the UK's system was championed as a symbol of a post-Brexit Britain. It seems that it might be either too expensive or too difficult - so we are taking something off-the-shelf previously operated by OneWeb (gone bust).

Upside of this is that is much lower risk and cost than UK developing it's own system and building our own satellites - as recent experience suggests 'UK-bespoke' technology approach can be a bit problematic when 'off-the-shelf' alternatives are available - and we need the money. Of course the risk remains that we try and reconfigure OneWeb for UK-specific requirements, and that can either end up quite expensive or we find that the OneWeb platform can't accommodate our needs. It's not unknown in the defence and related industries.
 
Mudball said:
So the Chancellor has cut VAT. I am trying to jog my memory... i thought the Brexit campaigners always said that the EU would not allow us to cut VAT on our own. So has things changed? Have we already left without telling anyone? or is it was just another lie? i need a cup of tea
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SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Of course we have formally left the EU, but still being in the transition period I think we are still having to comply with all or most EU rules and directives. Clearly only most level playing field constraints if we are changing VAT levels unilaterally. Surprised we can do that given the fuss made over VAT on some female hygiene products.

Anyway - things will all be fine - though already it is disappointing recent (last month) news about the plans for UK to be building our own GPS satellite system given UK won't be part of EU's Galileo programme - as the UK's system was championed as a symbol of a post-Brexit Britain. It seems that it might be either too expensive or too difficult - so we are taking something off-the-shelf previously operated by OneWeb (gone bust).

Upside of this is that is much lower risk and cost than UK developing it's own system and building our own satellites - as recent experience suggests 'UK-bespoke' technology approach can be a bit problematic when 'off-the-shelf' alternatives are available - and we need the money. Of course the risk remains that we try and reconfigure OneWeb for UK-specific requirements, and that can either end up quite expensive or we find that the OneWeb platform can't accommodate our needs. It's not unknown in the defence and related industries.
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Not sure where we are with the Brexit thing and what we can change.

HOWEVER, there is an EU rate and individual countries can set variations around that. A VAT 'dividend' is paid to the EU, and the balance is kept 'locally.' Here in Spain we have variations around 21%, some things being at a rate a lot less.

If the 'dividend' doesn't have to be returned to the EU.... a rate cut?
 
Liz Truss letter to Sunak and Gove just Tory Project Fear? Amongst other concerns she warns that Gove's idea (I hesitate to call it a plan) for a gradual implementation of border controls with the EU after we leave the transition period on 31st December may well be subject to legal challenge from WTO member nations. That's the problem with trading as part of a larger group - they tend to have rules all members have to play to. And for the WTO the rules around MFN are very important.

https://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/whatis_e/tif_e/fact2_e.htm

Who could have known :(
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Liz Truss letter to Sunak and Gove just Tory Project Fear? Amongst other concerns she warns that Gove's idea (I hesitate to call it a plan) for a gradual implementation of border controls with the EU after we leave the transition period on 31st December may well be subject to legal challenge from WTO member nations. That's the problem with trading as part of a larger group - they tend to have rules all members have to play to. And for the WTO the rules around MFN are very important.

https://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/whatis_e/tif_e/fact2_e.htm

Who could have known :(
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It might well be challenged but, equally, WTO rules allow for a gradual implementation(the very words used in the WTO text), and is deemed part of the "progressive liberalisation" of trade with WTO members. And if Gove used the words "gradual implementation," part of WTO's own docs, maybe he understands it better than you.
 
Hobbit said:
It might well be challenged but, equally, WTO rules allow for a gradual implementation(the very words used in the WTO text), and is deemed part of the "progressive liberalisation" of trade with WTO members. And if Gove used the words "gradual implementation," part of WTO's own docs, maybe he understands it better than you.
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Maybe Gove has a more honest agenda?
 
I think that SILH must get a lot of his (mis)information and bile from his idol J O'B who has, I understand, recently been slapped down a few times on air by interviewees who actually knew what they were talking about and who could debate. J O'B should be more careful who he interviews. He doesn't take kindly to being exposed as what he really is. :giggle:
 
Blue in Munich said:
Maybe Gove has a more honest agenda?
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"Honest" and "Gove" in the same sentence is a tough pill to swallow. Extremely intelligent, absolutely. And ably backed by some very good Civil Servants.

I do think that "gradual implementation" leaves scope for interpretation, and I do know that the phraseology will have been stress tested by some very clever people. At the end of the day, WTO will be the arbitrators of that.
 
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