Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Slime]

Chancellor warns of 'adjusting to the new reality'.
I wonder what he means by that, why would he warn us.
Sounds like prepare to be much poorer.

You really are very depressing.
Lighten up, you might find that life is actually bearable!

 

[larmen]

Own up, who's donated to the bongs for brexit fund.
?

As we are saving £350,000,000 a week from next month onwards a patriotic prime minister would have just spend the cash on it anyway. Put it on a credit card and get some Avios points on top if necessary.

Saying that, at these rates of course we should just scarp the broken tower and buy a new one. We can clearly afford it. Better still, buy a new one every month and by next New Years we have Big Bens running all the way from Westminster to Tower Bridge.

 

[SocketRocket]

Im taking orders:
https://leaveeushop.com/?fbclid=IwAR2Gt8W5Le4b7ylmzt_XtbFyTUxANiTYuv9YVQ_9L7XLkldXFKTwq8UQ1wM

 

[Mudball]

Well looks like Sajid has got the industry with their tail up by saying that we won’t follow EU standards. I thought it was a big trading bloc and we need to follow theirs to ensure frictionless trade.

Quiet a senseless approach in my view but I don’t have a 80 seat majority.

Equally I don’t know how much of this is posturing - soon everyone in UK and EU will cry foul and then BoJo will rise in and relent and show up as a hero by saving world trade.

BTW, I won’t mind if we could buy petrol in gallons at US prices

 

[harpo_72]

Well looks like Sajid has got the industry with their tail up by saying that we won’t follow EU standards. I thought it was a big trading bloc and we need to follow theirs to ensure frictionless trade.

Quiet a senseless approach in my view but I don’t have a 80 seat majority.

Equally I don’t know how much of this is posturing - soon everyone in UK and EU will cry foul and then BoJo will rise in and relent and show up as a hero by saving world trade.

BTW, I won’t mind if we could buy petrol in gallons at US prices

They are showing a lack of regard ... meaning they are going to be hard to negotiate against.
But sadly, it’s a little ignorant to think that this will fool the EU. Big business will have to at least meet the EU stds if they wish to operate in the EU markets.

 

[SocketRocket]

We dont need to have compulsary alignment with EU standards, that would mean becoming a vassal state. We have to comply to many standards around the world already, its nothing new. We may well want to set our own standards that other countries would have to abide by to trade with us. Leaving the EU means not being tied to the single market or customs union so this should be no surprise at all.

 

[harpo_72]

We dont need to have compulsary alignment with EU standards, that would mean becoming a vassal state. We have to comply to many standards around the world already, its nothing new. We may well want to set our own standards that other countries would have to abide by to trade with us. Leaving the EU means not being tied to the single market or customs union so this should be no surprise at all.

Ah so you want complexity.. that costs too much money. The standards we have must be equal or better or we will be chasing certification to sell in these markets.. For example India take 6months to certify a wheel .. so I only put a select few through and they got delayed release of the vehicle. I would be pretty cheesed off if I had this issue in several markets, especially if they have some random requirements.

 

[SocketRocket]

Ah so you want complexity.. that costs too much money. The standards we have must be equal or better or we will be chasing certification to sell in these markets.. For example India take 6months to certify a wheel .. so I only put a select few through and they got delayed release of the vehicle. I would be pretty cheesed off if I had this issue in several markets, especially if they have some random requirements.

My company did business all around the Globe. We had to comply with standards in many countries but its not that difficult, you create a suitable spec that meets the highest requirements but you control that yourself. Why would we want the EU to have legal power over products that we dont even sell to them. How on earth do you think China, the USA etc would react to the EU insisting they must have the ECJ presiding over their product standards?

 

[Mudball]

We dont need to have compulsary alignment with EU standards, that would mean becoming a vassal state. We have to comply to many standards around the world already, its nothing new. We may well want to set our own standards that other countries would have to abide by to trade with us. Leaving the EU means not being tied to the single market or customs union so this should be no surprise at all.

Sorry SR.. i stopped reading when I got to that narrative.. sound bites like this are what makes the whole debate meaningless for more moderate folks and those who want to make this work. We want to trade with the world and want to make it as frictionless as possible. It’s worth also realising that we are no longer a colonial power - we are 5th, 6th or 7th economy in the world. It is far easier to be part of one of those in front who have an established standard rather than define a brand new one. US, China, Germany in front of us have w far bigger internal market and could define own standards. China follows the standards of the market that it exports to. You have to follow US or EU standards if you want to export to them. So there is not much space there.
Why don’t we switch our electricity to something like 300v which no one else has

 

[harpo_72]

My company did business all around the Globe. We had to comply with standards in many countries but its not that difficult, you create a suitable spec that meets the highest requirements but you control that yourself. Why would we want the EU to have legal power over products that we dont even sell to them. How on earth do you think China, the USA etc would react to the EU insisting they must have the ECJ presiding over their product standards?

We do that already, it’s called being lean.. the hardest test requirement becomes your bench mark.
So we are either agreeing that the UK will set higher standards and requirements than the EU or they should match every standard with the hardest being the benchmark.
The point being you still have to go through a certification process .. unless you have the required certs that are accepted in other markets. Having one of your own will require recognition and acceptance.

 

[SocketRocket]

Sorry SR.. i stopped reading when I got to that narrative.. sound bites like this are what makes the whole debate meaningless for more moderate folks and those who want to make this work. We want to trade with the world and want to make it as frictionless as possible. It’s worth also realising that we are no longer a colonial power - we are 5th, 6th or 7th economy in the world. It is far easier to be part of one of those in front who have an established standard rather than define a brand new one. US, China, Germany in front of us have w far bigger internal market and could define own standards. China follows the standards of the market that it exports to. You have to follow US or EU standards if you want to export to them. So there is not much space there.
Why don’t we switch our electricity to something like 300v which no one else has

Who is suggesting we dont have to follow the standards of the country we export to, I certainly didn't. We can do that without being tied into an EU legal framework that forces us. We export to countries like the USA and our products have to conform to their standards but we are not legally forced to do that with the US courts insisting we incorporate their standards. As our government have stated, we will not be rule takers that are not under our control, it will be our decision on how high our standards are set and in cases this may be better than those in the EU. I repeat my point that the UK being tied to EU standards by EU laws that are governed by the ECJ takes away our state of of independance. If that offends you then thats unfortunate but your issue not mine. We managed quite well with British Standards.

 

[Ye Olde Boomer]

[ Not part of your conversation. Is the UK almost Europe like Japan is almost Asia? You know, floating about the periphery? Or do you consider yourselves European?]

 

[User62651]

[ Not part of your conversation. Is the UK almost Europe like Japan is almost Asia? You know, floating about the periphery? Or do you consider yourselves European?]

There is a bit of that, part of being an island maybe. UK peoples likely define themselves firstly as English/Scottish etc then British. Doesn't really go beyond that, never heard anyone call themselves European just like I doubt Chinese or Pakistanis or Thais call themselves Asian.

What might be the exception and pertinent to this place is every 2 years in Ryder Cup week when 'European' suddenly becomes an identity 'thing' for just a few days until we skelp you lot!

Europe is too diverse to be classed as one thing perhaps.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Unfortunately they’re not as not every species is found in our waters, add in the fact our fleet also sells a lot of what’s caught to the EU Market, I’d imagine it would be beneficial to all sides if a satisfactory deal is negotiated.
Not sure the extra mileage or competition in international waters would be either be cost effective or viable for current UK trawlers.
What hopefully what will happen is that any negotiations puts our fleets interests first and has them in a strong position.

I agree with you with regards to selling into the EU market but your other points neuter your argument a bit (in my opinion). If the species currently being caught aren't found in our waters then these vessels are already travelling further afield, into international waters to catch those species which means they must be cost effective and viable. That isn't going to change after Brexit, other than they will have to fish more than 12 miles offshore from continental Europe outside of the respective countries national waters.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I agree with you with regards to selling into the EU market but your other points neuter your argument a bit (in my opinion). If the species currently being caught aren't found in our waters then these vessels are already travelling further afield, into international waters to catch those species which means they must be cost effective and viable. That isn't going to change after Brexit, other than they will have to fish more than 12 miles offshore from continental Europe outside of the respective countries national waters.

What if currently our fleet don’t go after those fish and we buy it after it is landed by boats from other nations at our ports?

 

[ColchesterFC]

What if currently our fleet don’t go after those fish and we buy it after it is landed by boats from other nations at our ports?

Then it makes it more likely that the EU will want to make a deal unless they don't want their fishermen to be able to sell us their fish any more.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Then it makes it more likely that the EU will want to make a deal unless they don't want their fishermen to be able to sell us their fish any more.

Which was my original point to the post I answered, grown ups will talk and deals will be done.

 

[Mudball]

What if currently our fleet don’t go after those fish and we buy it after it is landed by boats from other nations at our ports?

what if ‘our’ fleet is actually owned by ‘them’?? Wasn’t there a documentary that showed more than half of Brit flagged vessels were owned by Europeans.. I am assuming we can nationalise these easily

 

[Ye Olde Boomer]

There is a bit of that, part of being an island maybe. UK peoples likely define themselves firstly as English/Scottish etc then British. Doesn't really go beyond that, never heard anyone call themselves European just like I doubt Chinese or Pakistanis or Thais call themselves Asian.

What might be the exception and pertinent to this place is every 2 years in Ryder Cup week when 'European' suddenly becomes an identity 'thing' for just a few days until we skelp you lot!

Europe is too diverse to be classed as one thing perhaps.

Thanks for the insight.

Our nation spans the breadth of a continent as you know. The two coasts, which are far apart, are somewhat compatible.
The interior is like another world. I couldn't live there. If I could afford a nice flat in London, I'd feel far more at home there than, say, somewhere in Missouri.

 

[Hobbit]

Well looks like Sajid has got the industry with their tail up by saying that we won’t follow EU standards. I thought it was a big trading bloc and we need to follow theirs to ensure frictionless trade.

Quiet a senseless approach in my view but I don’t have a 80 seat majority.

Equally I don’t know how much of this is posturing - soon everyone in UK and EU will cry foul and then BoJo will rise in and relent and show up as a hero by saving world trade.

BTW, I won’t mind if we could buy petrol in gallons at US prices

The national standard, post-Brexit, won't necessarily be the standard to which a product is made. The UK, and Europe, makes products to many international standards. For example, the company I used to work for has a medical division, and its biggest customer was the USA. Medical equipment was made to the FDA standards, not CE standards. The company also has an industrial division making breathing apparatus and gas detection systems. Again, when selling outside the EU it was the 'local' standards that had to be met.

The issue that so many are getting so het up about is a bit of a non-story. If a UK company wants to sell into the UK it will need to manufacture to the new UK standards, but beyond that its up to the company whose standards they meet.