Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Mudball]

Ah but Animal Rights will expect us to have a transition so we can teach them French and Dutch

After 31st, we wont have to follow any of those draconian EU laws and we can set our own animal or worker rights. We can have our bendy bananas and eat it too!!!

 

[SocketRocket]

We are negotiating a change in an existing arrangement - I think you understand that...

We are not negotiating to keep our fishing grounds, they are ours. If the EU want to get access to them its up to them to negotiate.

 

[drdel]

We are negotiating a change in an existing arrangement - I think you understand that...

Of course - but that was not the key point

I was differentiating between legal rights (defence/borders, mining, extraction, fish, natural and other sovereign assets, exchange rate etc) and shared rights (open market access, people travel & movements, trade and medical licences Etc).

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

We are not negotiating to keep our fishing grounds, they are ours. If the EU want to get access to them its up to them to negotiate.

Nah - you know it doesn't work like that. We are in an existing arrangement being members of the EU and are negotiating a new agreement and part of that is having to negotiate various fishing rights - I suppose we might be able to choose to exclude fishing rights from the negotiations but I think the EU would have some thoughts on that.

Besides. The UK in our great humanitarianism is, it seems, going to be using children as bargaining chips. Makes me proud - not.

But hey - we can choose to be utterly unethical as we have taken back control - oh yes - we can choose to be utter shysters. It's what we voted for.

 

[drdel]

Nah - you know it doesn't work like that. We are in an existing arrangement being members of the EU and are negotiating a new agreement and part of that is having to negotiate various fishing rights - I suppose we might be able to choose to exclude fishing rights from the negotiations but I think the EU would have some thoughts on that.

Besides. The UK in our great humanitarianism is, it seems, going to be using children as bargaining chips. Makes me proud - not.

But hey - we can choose to be utterly unethical as we have taken back control - oh yes - we can choose to be utter shysters. It's what we voted for.

You're still missing the point. If you own a house and I own a house that's it. If we BOTH own a house but one of us wants to pull out of the deal then we HAVE to negotiate on that but we don't have to bring either of our houses into the debate.

 

[Hobbit]

We are negotiating a change in an existing arrangement - I think you understand that...

what complete and utter rubbish. It’s not an existing deal at all. The U.K. will have left the EU and regained full control of its fishing grounds. It will be negotiating a completely new deal. If the U.K. so chooses it could completely leave out the issue of fishing grounds. It won’t, and the EU will desperately push for the inclusion.

Do a bit of research on how many fishing communities there are in northern Spain and western France.

Existing deal.... I’d like to think it’s semantics on your part, a misspoke thing, but existing deal... complete rubbish.

 

[robinthehood]

Fishing for financial services

 

[drdel]

Fishing for financial services

No, no.
Fish, (oil, gas minerals etc.) within the territorial water belong to the UK, Financial service is an agreed international business arrangement. You can use it but they are not really compatible and once you start to bring in things from different sectors you are into a guessing game of 'valuation'. How do you value a future renewable food source against a notional 'trade-off in currency etc. How do you value a 'defence capability against German car imports? I could see how we could do Manufactured, Chemicals/medicines, agriculture, tourism/hospitality etc etc as defined groups.

If we proceed down the mix-n-match route we'll be arguing equivalence of 'notional values' across non-related sectors for decades - but unfortunately I fear that is the muddy waters which beckon our politicians and the EU bureaucrats/technocrats who seem to know the price of stuff but the 'value' of now't.

 

[robinthehood]

No, no.
Fish, (oil, gas minerals etc.) within the territorial water belong to the UK, Financial service is an agreed international business arrangement. You can use it but they are not really compatible and once you start to bring in things from different sectors you are into a guessing game of 'valuation'. How do you value a future renewable food source against a notional 'trade-off in currency etc. How do you value a 'defence capability against German car imports? I could see how we could do Manufactured, Chemicals/medicines, agriculture, tourism/hospitality etc etc as defined groups.

If we proceed down the mix-n-match route we'll be arguing equivalence of 'notional values' across non-related sectors for decades - but unfortunately I fear that is the muddy waters which beckon our politicians and the EU bureaucrats/technocrats who seem to know the price of stuff but the 'value' of now't.

I mean the EU have already stated as much, but you best I guess.

 

[drdel]

I mean the EU have already stated as much, but you (know) best I guess.

I don't - just challenging your opinion with an explanation of my own view and in the scheme of life's things its worth the sum total of beggar all.

 

[Dando]

Nah - you know it doesn't work like that. We are in an existing arrangement being members of the EU and are negotiating a new agreement and part of that is having to negotiate various fishing rights - I suppose we might be able to choose to exclude fishing rights from the negotiations but I think the EU would have some thoughts on that.

Besides. The UK in our great humanitarianism is, it seems, going to be using children as bargaining chips. Makes me proud - not.

But hey - we can choose to be utterly unethical as we have taken back control - oh yes - we can choose to be utter shysters. It's what we voted for.

My god, you talk utter rubbish

Why should we have to negotiate who fishes in UL waters once we are free from the EU?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

My god, you talk utter rubbish.

Why should we have to negotiate who fishes in UL waters once we are free from the EU?

I take it you mean UK waters?
Surely you don’t believe our fishing fleet can be maintained on just UK waters alone and I’d imagine we’ll be negotiating with who wants to fish our waters with those Nations whose waters our fleet wish to fish.

 

[robinthehood]

I take it you mean UK waters?
Surely you don’t believe our fishing fleet can be maintained on just UK waters alone and I’d imagine we’ll be negotiating with who wants to fish our waters with those Nations whose waters our fleet wish to fish.

Sadly I think all those fishing towns that voted hand over first to leave are going to be very disappointed and sacrificed to save other areas.

 

[ColchesterFC]

I take it you mean UK waters?
Surely you don’t believe our fishing fleet can be maintained on just UK waters alone and I’d imagine we’ll be negotiating with who wants to fish our waters with those Nations whose waters our fleet wish to fish.

With the size of the current UK fleet I would imagine that UK waters alone would be enough to maintain them, but failing that there's always international waters that they can go and fish in. As long as they stay more than 12 miles offshore from the nearest land they're fine to fish I believe.

 

[Dando]

With the size of the current UK fleet I would imagine that UK waters alone would be enough to maintain them, but failing that there's always international waters that they can go and fish in. As long as they stay more than 12 miles offshore from the nearest land they're fine to fish I believe.

Or they can ignore the boundaries like our EU counterparts do

 

[robinthehood]

Own up, who's donated to the bongs for brexit fund.
?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

With the size of the current UK fleet I would imagine that UK waters alone would be enough to maintain them, but failing that there's always international waters that they can go and fish in. As long as they stay more than 12 miles offshore from the nearest land they're fine to fish I believe.

Unfortunately they’re not as not every species is found in our waters, add in the fact our fleet also sells a lot of what’s caught to the EU Market, I’d imagine it would be beneficial to all sides if a satisfactory deal is negotiated.
Not sure the extra mileage or competition in international waters would be either be cost effective or viable for current UK trawlers.
What hopefully what will happen is that any negotiations puts our fleets interests first and has them in a strong position.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Chancellor warns of 'adjusting to the new reality'.
I wonder what he means by that, why would he warn us.
Sounds like prepare to be much poorer.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

what complete and utter rubbish. It’s not an existing deal at all. The U.K. will have left the EU and regained full control of its fishing grounds. It will be negotiating a completely new deal. If the U.K. so chooses it could completely leave out the issue of fishing grounds. It won’t, and the EU will desperately push for the inclusion.

Do a bit of research on how many fishing communities there are in northern Spain and western France.

Existing deal.... I’d like to think it’s semantics on your part, a misspoke thing, but existing deal... complete rubbish.

I did add that UK might choose to exclude fishing rights in uk waters from any negotiations but that the EU might take a view on that. And yes of course my thinking was squinty and so wrong in this - when we leave the EU we leave all current agreements unless anything has been agreed in such respect in the withdrawal agreement...my thinking was still in the WA negotiations.

 

[Beezerk]

Own up, who's donated to the bongs for brexit fund.
?

I think they've been smoking pot to have come up with the idea in the first place ?