Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Blue in Munich]

Let me explain it.. May was compromised without a majority and had to have an expansive inclusive deal to appeal to a broader spectrum of opinions. Had she got a large majority she would have had greater freedom and would have had more success in her negotiations instead of worrying about appeasing certain groups. Of cause you can dismiss as hypothetical but that would be pretty rash.
Hence the leave Europe campaign was instigated by the Tory party by calling a referendum and in essence they were wholly responsible for its delivery. Those who voted for another party did not realise they were watering down the opportunity to leave- bit short sighted there but understandable. But the key point is the voting public if they wanted to leave should have voted for May. So by not doing so they have blown it.

Utter cobblers. The quality of May's deal had nothing to do with the lack of a majority & everything to do with being a confirmed remainer; she wasn't interested in leaving.

If she'd engineered a decent deal there would be no reason for anyone, regardless of party, to vote against it (other than their personal agendas). Yet a large number of Conservervatives did. 432 votes against it is not a lack of a majority, it is evidence of a dog's dinner of a deal.

 

[Mudball]

Back to the Supreme Court on Monday no doubt.

Request for extension letter unsigned and accompanied by a letter signed by Boris saying any delay would be a mistake.

what kind of student politics have we descended to now? Even my local neighbourhood watch and golf committee have more ethics than this

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Was there a Pro Brexit march/protest in London today [Sat]. ?
If so, what sort of numbers did they attract.

Numbers at marches are irrelevant. The numbers who vote are what counts, everything else is just noise.

 

[bobmac]

What's going on, are we out yet?

 

[harpo_72]

Utter cobblers. The quality of May's deal had nothing to do with the lack of a majority & everything to do with being a confirmed remainer; she wasn't interested in leaving.

If she'd engineered a decent deal there would be no reason for anyone, regardless of party, to vote against it (other than their personal agendas). Yet a large number of Conservervatives did. 432 votes against it is not a lack of a majority, it is evidence of a dog's dinner of a deal.

She got a better deal than Boris.. she got the best deal that was going to happen. If you think anything can be improved you are living in Farage land

 

[harpo_72]

Numbers at marches are irrelevant. The numbers who vote are what counts, everything else is just noise.

Well 3 people doesn’t make a march 🤣🤣

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Well 3 people doesn’t make a march 🤣🤣

No, that's a walk between friends 😁.

Brexiteers, in theory, have no need to march, they won the vote and that is all that matters in a democracy, or it should.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Numbers at marches are irrelevant. The numbers who vote are what counts, everything else is just noise.

I don't disagree with that, I was just pointing out the 2nd ref folk had a 1,000,000 folk supporting their cause on the streets of London whilst the Leave folk seemed surprisingly thin on the ground. I would have thought that in the circumstances there would be thousands of them out championing their cause.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I don't disagree with that, I was just pointing out the 2nd ref folk had a 1,000,000 folk supporting their cause on the streets of London whilst the Leave folk seemed surprisingly thin on the ground. I would have thought that in the circumstances there would be thousands of them out championing their cause.

As I said in my previous post they should have no need to. Why waste a Saturday? The result of the vote was all that matters.

 

[Foxholer]

.. as stated previously “no deal” is not on the table the HoC will not do it no one wants to be responsible for that.

Kindly explain what is so wrong about 'No Deal'!

 

[harpo_72]

Kindly explain what is so wrong about 'No Deal'!

It’s too far into the unknown no one wants take that risk .. hence the Benn Act.
Ask yourself who will take the blame for no deal? Boris is putting on a front but if it happens and it goes wrong, how will he be remembered in history?? And that goes for every one, those wanting it are nowhere near responsible for making that decision. So their opinions are just winding up the idiot hot heads who have not got the capacity to weigh up the odds.

 

[Dando]

I don't disagree with that, I was just pointing out the 2nd ref folk had a 1,000,000 folk supporting their cause on the streets of London whilst the Leave folk seemed surprisingly thin on the ground. I would have thought that in the circumstances there would be thousands of them out championing their cause.

The leavers have no reason to march as they won the vote.
Yesterday was just the petulant remoamers having a day out

 

[Foxholer]

It’s too far into the unknown no one wants take that risk .. hence the Benn Act.
Ask yourself who will take the blame for no deal? Boris is putting on a front but if it happens and it goes wrong, how will he be remembered in history?? And that goes for every one, those wanting it are nowhere near responsible for making that decision. So their opinions are just winding up the idiot hot heads who have not got the capacity to weigh up the odds.

That reply doesn't actually answer my question - apart, perhaps, the first dozen words which describe the dithering politicians as cowards!

To me, the Benn Act merely incentivised BoJo to get a deal done (his words!). Likewise, the Letwin amendment closed the loop-hole that would allow BoJo to enact No Deal by default and ensure Parliament is actually in charge of the process. I'm inclined to hope the EU says 'Non/Nein' to an extension request, thus forcing Parliament to show whether it accepts the deal BoJo negotiated or withdraws A50! If the latter happens, it would be a travesty and I'd be inclined to march (among, I believe a greater crowd than any Remain one) against that decision!

 

[harpo_72]

That reply doesn't actually answer my question - apart, perhaps, the first dozen words.

To me, the Benn Act merely incentivised BoJo to get a deal done (his words!). Likewise, the Letwin amendment closed the loop-hole that would allow BoJo to enact No Deal by default and ensure Parliament is actually in charge of the process. I'm inclined to hope the EU says 'Non/Nein' to an extension request, thus forcing Parliament to show whether it accepts the deal BoJo negotiated or withdraws A50!

Exactly.. EU says no to an extension, A50 gets revoked and then the GE will start the process again or We move forward as members of the EU.

 

[Foxholer]

Exactly.. EU says no to an extension, A50 gets revoked and then the GE will start the process again or We move forward as members of the EU.

Defying democracy! And at an unbelievable cost!

 

[Fade and Die]

Exactly.. EU says no to an extension, A50 gets revoked and then the GE will start the process again or We move forward as members of the EU.

If this happens I think the GE would see a Conservative/Brexit party coalition government in power pushing for the hardest of Brexits. It’s foolish for the opponents of no deal not to vote for this deal.

 

[Dando]

If this happens I think the GE would see a Conservative/Brexit party coalition government in power pushing for the hardest of Brexits. It’s foolish for the opponents of no deal not to vote for this deal.

No doubt the losers wouldn’t accept that result either 🤣😂

 

[MegaSteve]

I don't disagree with that, I was just pointing out the 2nd ref folk had a 1,000,000 folk supporting their cause on the streets of London whilst the Leave folk seemed surprisingly thin on the ground. I would have thought that in the circumstances there would be thousands of them out championing their cause.

With the majority of Londoners (wrongly) voting remain there's probably no stomach to march in support of Boris in your own backyard...

 

[MegaSteve]

If this happens I think the GE would see a Conservative/Brexit party coalition government in power pushing for the hardest of Brexits. It’s foolish for the opponents of no deal not to vote for this deal.

Can't see a coalition between Conservative/Brexit parties... A step too far for 'soft' tories I would suggest...

 

[User62651]

Numbers at marches are irrelevant. The numbers who vote are what counts, everything else is just noise.

People march to protest. That's part of democracy.
Of course numbers matter. The more numbers the more likely you are to get taken notice of and heard. Politicians fear the masses, masses instigate change.
Some places you aren't allowed to march, where freedoms are outlawed.