Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

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Mudball said:
So have the Leavers suddenly fallen in love with Mark Carney??
At first glance the BBC headline is that he is positive about the deal... if you re-read the article about 3 times, it is not a glorious endorsement of the deal.
But who cares about the details.. I m sure he is the toast of the Leavers Lounge[/QUOTE

Not really he has got almost every forecast wrong!
Click to expand...
 
drdel said:
My conclusion is there are many MPs who are simply afraid to make decision - any decision! They would rather keep kicking it until a decision is made for them so they can claim the 'success' of the non-involved.
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I agree .
The norm has been ,anything goes wrong blame the EU.
Something goes right take the credit themselves.
Bunch of idiots
 
Foxholer said:
Please explain what's 'rubbish' about it! At least, within the context of the decision by UK electorate to leave!

Twaddle! May's deal was simply a rubbish one! The 'voting public' actually had no influence over its acceptance or rejection either!
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Let me explain it.. May was compromised without a majority and had to have an expansive inclusive deal to appeal to a broader spectrum of opinions. Had she got a large majority she would have had greater freedom and would have had more success in her negotiations instead of worrying about appeasing certain groups. Of cause you can dismiss as hypothetical but that would be pretty rash.
Hence the leave Europe campaign was instigated by the Tory party by calling a referendum and in essence they were wholly responsible for its delivery. Those who voted for another party did not realise they were watering down the opportunity to leave- bit short sighted there but understandable. But the key point is the voting public if they wanted to leave should have voted for May. So by not doing so they have blown it.
 
harpo_72 said:
Let me explain it.. May was compromised without a majority and had to have an expansive inclusive deal to appeal to a broader spectrum of opinions. Had she got a large majority she would have had greater freedom and would have had more success in her negotiations instead of worrying about appeasing certain groups. Of cause you can dismiss as hypothetical but that would be pretty rash.
Hence the leave Europe campaign was instigated by the Tory party by calling a referendum and in essence they were wholly responsible for its delivery. Those who voted for another party did not realise they were watering down the opportunity to leave- bit short sighted there but understandable. But the key point is the voting public if they wanted to leave should have voted for May. So by not doing so they have blown it.
Click to expand...

None of that explains what's "rubbish" about the deal.
 
drdel said:
My conclusion is there are many MPs who are simply afraid to make decision - any decision! They would rather keep kicking it until a decision is made for them so they can claim the 'success' of the non-involved.
Click to expand...
So if the country economically falls apart ... are you blaming the MPs or will you say it was the will of the people?
Yes they are protecting their careers, Ratner destroyed himself .. so can you not understand they are in a no win position because you will blame them either way but forget that you have some responsibility.
 
harpo_72 said:
Let me explain it.. May was compromised without a majority and had to have an expansive inclusive deal to appeal to a broader spectrum of opinions. Had she got a large majority she would have had greater freedom and would have had more success in her negotiations instead of worrying about appeasing certain groups. Of cause you can dismiss as hypothetical but that would be pretty rash.
Hence the leave Europe campaign was instigated by the Tory party by calling a referendum and in essence they were wholly responsible for its delivery. Those who voted for another party did not realise they were watering down the opportunity to leave- bit short sighted there but understandable. But the key point is the voting public if they wanted to leave should have voted for May. So by not doing so they have blown it.
Click to expand...
An opinion that you are entitled to, but my view is that it's a load of twaddle - May's electoral issues aside!
Your second paragraph is particularly twaddlish!
 
harpo_72 said:
Fishing quotas, no freedom to negotiate deals to a greater benefit than the EU .. you can find the rest unless your one of these wets who thinks Boris is a great guy and a natural leader...?
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Two suggestions and then you give up on reasons that the deal is rubbish? Surely if the deal is passed we would have the right to negotiate our own trade deals. Whether they are a greater or lesser benefit than what we currently have as an EU member remains to be seen.

And I'm one of those "wets" that wanted and still wants to remain in the EU but unlike you I'm not a remainer that will stoop to insulting those that voted leave.

Oh, and as you seem to be one of those people that takes pleasure in insulting leave voters perhaps I should point out that it's "you're" not "your".
 
harpo_72 said:
Fishing quotas, no freedom to negotiate deals to a greater benefit than the EU .. you can find the rest unless your one of these wets who thinks Boris is a great guy and a natural leader...?
Click to expand...
The 'deal' had/has nothing to do with fishing quotas! It was/is solely about a Withdrawal Agreement! And I certainly don't think BoJo is a 'great guy/natural leader'! Though he does have a certain 'charisma' (that doesn't appeal to me!)!
 
Scenario
I am making a deal with you to leave on 31 oct.
Now that we've made the deal I'll go back and try to get the others to agree it.
But some may try to stop that so they have made a law saying I have to write to you to ask for you to agree to an extension beyond 31st, and so , having to obey the Law, I will do that.
But if we agree now that when you receive the letter, you will not agree to an extension, then when I go back to them a few days later, I tell them that and so they now have a choice." Vote my deal through, as I've already presented it to you, or go out on 31st with no deal"

Likely scenario, do you think?
 
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Swinglowandslow said:
Scenario
I am am making a deal with you to leave on 31 oct.
Now that we've made the deal I'll go back and try to get the others to agree it.
But some may try to stop that so they have made a law saying I have to write to you to ask for you to agree to an extension beyond 31st, and so , having to obey the Law, I will do that.
But if we agree now that when you receive the letter, you will not agree to an extension, then when I go back to them a few days later, I tell them that and so they now have a choice." Vote my deal through, as I've already presented it to you, or go out on 31st with no deal"

Laikely scenario, do you think?
Click to expand...
Probably not
 
Swinglowandslow said:
Scenario
I am am making a deal with you to leave on 31 oct.
Now that we've made the deal I'll go back and try to get the others to agree it.
But some may try to stop that so they have made a law saying I have to write to you to ask for you to agree to an extension beyond 31st, and so , having to obey the Law, I will do that.
But if we agree now that when you receive the letter, you will not agree to an extension, then when I go back to them a few days later, I tell them that and so they now have a choice." Vote my deal through, as I've already presented it to you, or go out on 31st with no deal"

Laikely scenario, do you think?
Click to expand...

There's always revoke Article 50 as the other option. One that personally I wouldn't be upset by (from a purely selfish point of view), but I'm not convinced that it would do anything to heal the divides that are currently so evident in our society.
 
Hacker Khan said:
Like anything will at the moment..
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No, I guess you're right. But I think that leaving with a good deal would be a good start to healing the divisions.

And that's not a suggestion that the current deal is a good deal. The main question has to be whether the current deal is the best deal that is available/possible or whether there is a better solution available that respects the referendum result and does the least amount of harm to the UK.
 
Back to the Supreme Court on Monday no doubt.

Request for extension letter unsigned and accompanied by a letter signed by Boris saying any delay would be a mistake.
 
harpo_72 said:
Let me explain it.. May was compromised without a majority and had to have an expansive inclusive deal to appeal to a broader spectrum of opinions. Had she got a large majority she would have had greater freedom and would have had more success in her negotiations instead of worrying about appeasing certain groups. Of cause you can dismiss as hypothetical but that would be pretty rash.
Hence the leave Europe campaign was instigated by the Tory party by calling a referendum and in essence they were wholly responsible for its delivery. Those who voted for another party did not realise they were watering down the opportunity to leave- bit short sighted there but understandable. But the key point is the voting public if they wanted to leave should have voted for May. So by not doing so they have blown it.
Click to expand...
What's the "leave Europe campaign"?
🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♀️
 
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