Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Hobbit]

Bearing in mind that it is in the guardian which brings its own preconceptions from both sides, but I thought this was a thoughtful piece that only occasionally veered into hyperbole, but made some good points nonetheless. IMHO of course, it isn't fact, it's an opinion. https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-crisis-global-capitalism-britain-place-world

Not a bad piece but, in my opinion not a fact, don't you think its contradictory of the piece to say that Brexit is only wanted by a small core of capitalists? Why would a capitalist want an economy to fail? Would a capitalist want to invest in failing industries, bearing in mind foreign investment is actually up? As for a small group of capitalists; not quite sure that constitutes 17.4m capitalists.

A well written, intelligently written piece but still well off the mark for accuracy. I think the writer misses the fact the Brexit hits a wide demographic of voters for a number of very different reasons. A typical Guardian piece written from a very rarified, sterile atmosphere devoid of a connection to the vast majority of Leave voters.

 

[woody69]

No, there is a EU Parliament clip on twitter of Sassoli speaking about it...

Farage was lying about the EU Army....until the EU said they were setting up an Army!

There is no formal plans in place for an "EU Army". Why do you keep believing this nonsense?

Yes the EU has various policies for defensive and security cooperation. For example, under the Common Security and Defence Policy, where EU countries can pool military funding and resources and the UK participates in military operations through this policy.

The EU has also established Permanent Structured Cooperation (PESCO) a strategy which aims to “jointly develop defence capabilities and make them available for EU military operations” which the UK has chosen not to participate in.

Just because you interpret these policies as an EU Army doesn't make it an EU Army.

 

[robinthehood]

There is no formal plans in place for an "EU Army". Why do you keep believing this nonsense?

Yes the EU has various policies for defensive and security cooperation. For example, under the Common Security and Defence Policy, where EU countries can pool military funding and resources and the UK participates in military operations through this policy.

The EU has also established Permanent Structured Cooperation (PESCO) a strategy which aims to “jointly develop defence capabilities and make them available for EU military operations” which the UK has chosen not to participate in.

Just because you interpret these policies as an EU Army doesn't make it an EU Army.

Don't you know we will be forced into an EU army, the euro, lose our veto .
It's true , i saw it on Twitter.

 

[ger147]

I thought parliament shut yesterday?

It opens again next Monday and will be sitting on Saturday 19th October, deadline day for Boris to send the extension letter if he doesn't have a deal.

Bercow will be in the chair.

 

[Old Skier]

There is no formal plans in place for an "EU Army". Why do you keep believing this nonsense?

Yes the EU has various policies for defensive and security cooperation. For example, under the Common Security and Defence Policy, where EU countries can pool military funding and resources and the UK participates in military operations through this policy.

The EU has also established Permanent Structured Cooperation (PESCO) a strategy which aims to “jointly develop defence capabilities and make them available for EU military operations” which the UK has chosen not to participate in.

Just because you interpret these policies as an EU Army doesn't make it an EU Army.

No there are no formal plans but https://www.politico.eu/article/angela-merkel-emmanuel-macron-eu-army-to-complement-nato/

However as most EU countries in NATO fail to meet their obligations in that organisation it would be interesting to see how they would cope forming an EU army.

 

[Taz]

Andrew Neil giving Ton y Balir both barrels n BBC 2

 

[Old Skier]

Andrew Neil giving Ton y Balir both barrels n BBC 2

Made look a right fool

 

[MegaSteve]

Andrew Neil giving Ton y Balir both barrels n BBC 2

Pretty pointless interview/guest for me... Bloke is now totally irrelevant... Same goes for Major...

 

[clubchamp98]

Don't you know we will be forced into an EU army, the euro, lose our veto .
It's true , i saw it on Twitter.

we voted for a trading block but look what happened there.
Our politicians can’t be trusted not to get us in deeper if we remain.
All the treaties that have been signed in our name have us where we are.

 

[robinthehood]

we voted for a trading block but look what happened there.
Our politicians can’t be trusted not to get us in deeper if we remain.
All the treaties that have been signed in our name have us where we are.

What's happened? My liberty isnt being impinged by the EU.
Employment at an all time high.
Sure we have issues, but they are not of the EU s making.

There is no gold at then end of the brexit rainbow.

 

[robinthehood]

What's happened? My liberty isnt being impinged by the EU.
Employment at an all time high.
Sure we have issues, but they are not of the EU s making.

There is no gold at then end of the brexit rainbow.

Well there is for some 😉

 

[clubchamp98]

What's happened? My liberty isnt being impinged by the EU.
Employment at an all time high.
Sure we have issues, but they are not of the EU s making.

There is no gold at then end of the brexit rainbow.

What’s happened is we have been embedded into the EU so much that we will not be allowed to leave.
The EU did the same to Ireland another ref until they got a Remain vote.

I just think what Merkel and Macron are saying “We can’t rely on the Americans” is probably true while Donald is president.
If you look at their quotes they are heading for a EU army.
But only if they keep us and our money.

 

[SocketRocket]

I think you find the ONLY reason a Withdrawal Agreement was presented rather than an FTA was because Article 50, which was drafted by the Scottish cross-bench peer and former diplomat Lord Kerr clearly states:

2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament

So yeah, you know, the law and all that nonsense.

That does not preclude a free trade arrangement or the outline of one being part of the arrangements for a withdrawal. That was the UKs original wish but the EU insisted they would not discuss it until they had settled the arrangements for the monetary settlement and the Irish Border.

I reiterate that the solution to the Irish Border is a Trade Agreement where free trade would negate the need for border checks. The EU refused to do this as they knew it would create problems with us reaching an agreement and their political advisors in the UK were assisting them on how to play it.

 

[clubchamp98]

Andrew Neil giving Ton y Balir both barrels n BBC 2

I have never seen Blair struggle that much.
Total lack of realistic argument.

 

[drdel]

What's happened? My liberty isnt being impinged by the EU.
Employment at an all time high.
Sure we have issues, but they are not of the EU s making.

There is no gold at then end of the brexit rainbow.

You have obviously ignored the switch of business to other countries funded by EU grants to the disadvantage of our taxpayers whose cash they've given away. While Germany has build large reserves by not meeting its full commitments.

 

[Old Skier]

What’s happened is we have been embedded into the EU so much that we will not be allowed to leave.
The EU did the same to Ireland another ref until they got a Remain vote.

I just think what Merkel and Macron are saying “We can’t rely on the Americans” is probably true while Donald is president.
If you look at their quotes they are heading for a EU army.
But only if they keep us and our money.

They cant rely on the US mostly because the US is thoroughly fed up with countries reneging on their NATO commitments.

 

[MegaSteve]

Just watched a program about the channel tunnel... Part of which Eurotunnel advise of the 13M they have spent on fast track electronic systems the Berks of Brussels say don't exist...

 

[Backache]

They cant rely on the US mostly because the US is thoroughly fed up with countries reneging on their NATO commitments.

I don't think anyone can rely on the US right now and it has nothing to do with reneging on commitments.
Look at the Kurds who helped US in their struggle against ISIS right now.

 

[Old Skier]

I don't think anyone can rely on the US right now and it has nothing to do with reneging on commitments.
Look at the Kurds who helped US in their struggle against ISIS right now.

It's not new with the US and can't all be put at the door of Trump. They did it to the marsh Arabs in Iraq after Gulf 1 and it happens when American allies get up and go and leave the US holding the baby. Where is the rest of NATO, not in northern Iraq/Syria

 

[Backache]

It's not new with the US and can't all be put at the door of Trump. They did it to the marsh Arabs in Iraq after Gulf 1 and it happens when American allies get up and go and leave the US holding the baby. Where is the rest of NATO, not in northern Iraq/Syria

I don't think Syria has ever been a NATO commitment, whether or not one thinks it should be . I still would not rely on this US administration in any shape or form .
I have seen absolutely no consistency of purpose whether it be us seizing Iranian tankers on their behalf . Kurds fighting ISIS or South Korea & Japan worried about North Korean missiles. Traditional American enemies treat them with impunity whilst traditional allies remain baffled and hamstrung.