Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Taz]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1177948573419352064

 

[Fade and Die]

Either means you do not understand the situation as 13 Scottish Tory MP's and about 3 Tory SMP's support Johnson.
No one expects them to be returned next election.

Re strange times, it is just tactics.
Once Johnson cannot achieve Brexit by 31st Oct he and the Tory are finished.
The more Militant SNP supporters would like their party to support LBJ and call a pre Brexit Election as they see that route quicker to gaining Independence

You seem to be struggling Doon...unable to give a straight answer to a VERY simple question.

I’ll repeat it...

“How would you feel if the government did their best to prevent Scottish independence after a 52%-48% victory? “

I double dare you Doon. 😜

 

[Beezerk]

There's talk that, having secured a long extension to Article 50, a GNU would then plan for a 2nd referendum followed by a general election. This could see it in power for up to a year, as oppose to the caretaker's couple of weeks.

A second referendum worries me more than leaving without a deal, playing with fire imo.
Image the division if it were to happen, it would be far far worse than it currently is.

 

[Fade and Die]

How do you know, because Boris says so ?

That's just a wind up, playground stuff and it's not working as a tactic. Even a lot of Tory MPs and members were embarrassed by the Corbyn KFC chicken thing. They have agreed to a GE as soon as an extension to Art50 is in place and you know it.

We all know the current situation with 31st Oct /No Deal/Prorouging/finding a legal dodge to get round the Benn bill etc, every dirty trick in the book will be researched by PM.

Opposition parties do not have to jump to a desperate PM the second he says do what I want, they know he's in trouble and is a conniving character so what's a few more weeks. Opposition parties are right imo to try and make sure the Art50 extension is sorted before any election (if PM cannot get a deal by then). It also puts the onus firmly on PM to try and get a deal with EU, something that does not appear to be getting anywhere at the moment. All PMs efforts should be there just now.

PM cares about himself that's why he's hellbent on leaving Oct31 'do or die' and will break/bend the law for it, he stupidly set a red line on it during leadership contest to become PM and has hamstrung himself in doing so. All bluster.

Those deal or no deal deadlines of mid and end October have to be sorted before we go to a GE.....imo. One thing at a time.

What about you Maxie, you want to have a go answering my question in post 14044?
I know you start hearing Mel Gibson crying “Freedom” when you have been pruning too much Laurel!😁

 

[SocketRocket]

How do you know, because Boris says so ?

That's just a wind up, playground stuff and it's not working as a tactic. Even a lot of Tory MPs and members were embarrassed by the Corbyn KFC chicken thing. They have agreed to a GE as soon as an extension to Art50 is in place and you know it.

We all know the current situation with 31st Oct /No Deal/Prorouging/finding a legal dodge to get round the Benn bill etc, every dirty trick in the book will be researched by PM.

Opposition parties do not have to jump to a desperate PM the second he says do what I want, they know he's in trouble and is a conniving character so what's a few more weeks. Opposition parties are right imo to try and make sure the Art50 extension is sorted before any election (if PM cannot get a deal by then). It also puts the onus firmly on PM to try and get a deal with EU, something that does not appear to be getting anywhere at the moment. All PMs efforts should be there just now.

PM cares about himself that's why he's hellbent on leaving Oct31 'do or die' and will break/bend the law for it, he stupidly set a red line on it during leadership contest to become PM and has hamstrung himself in doing so. All bluster.

Those deal or no deal deadlines of mid and end October have to be sorted before we go to a GE.....imo. One thing at a time.

Why not, every dirty trick in the book has been researched and used against him.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Once again for those not paying attention

That's a bit of a superior attitude, is it not?
There has been significant change to the Edinburgh agreement since 2014.
ELEV and the rise of English Nationalism.
UK [England in reality] taking Scotland out of the EU and when the Naesayers said that by voting for them was the ONLY way Scotland could STAY in the EU.
Some Scots people were daft enough to believe the lies that the Naysayers were spinning.

You will lose your pension was a Labour doorstep plan when meeting elderly residents. One of the factors in Labours demise in Scotland.
You cannot use the £. another whopper.
You will be forced to drive on the right.
You will lose the Monarchy. Etc Etc.

I think the same scenario is playing out in England with the difference that many are too stubborn to admit they were conned.

None of what you say here answers the question whether you think the scenario described is fair. And everyone here knows it is an analogous scenario in relation to a theoretical, but possible future referendum of Scotland citizens for Scottish independence.
And we are also in no doubt how you would vote.You would be one of the slim majority for independence.
So, trying to be fair, please, - would you go gently into that good night?
Hmmm?

 

[User62651]

Why not, every dirty trick in the book has been researched and used against him.

Heat and kitchen, crime and time etc etc.

Seems to be moves afoot for a vote of no confidence sooner than anticipated.

Tell me if Johnson loses and some kind of stand in govt is formed, when a GE does come around will Johnson still be party leader to fight that election? I can't quite follow if that's what Johnson now wants. If he loses a vote of confidence many seem to think that's the end of him politically.
Would he be the first to be PM twice (not continuous) if he did win GE?

 

[clubchamp98]

this will help settle things down :

The purpose of a "caretaker" government is expanding. The original idea was that, following a successful vote of no confidence against the Johnson government, Mr Corbyn would have a shot at forming a caretaker government.This would have explicit/limited purpose of applying to Brussels for an extension to Article 50 (to stop no deal on October 31st) then calling general election. Both acts to be done in matter of weeks. This is the way the SNP is moving. But LDs don't want Mr Corbyn as caretaker. Other "caretaker" PMs have been mentioned, all leading "Remain" figures, from K Clarke to M Beckett. But now it's been suggested (see today's Times) that such a figure should not be a "caretaker" but lead a so-called "government of national unity". This is a very different kettle of poisson. There's talk that, having secured a long extension to Article 50, a GNU would then plan for a 2nd referendum followed by a general election. This could see it in power for up to a year, as oppose to the caretaker's couple of weeks.

Would the courts end up telling them what to do.

 

[clubchamp98]

Why not, every dirty trick in the book has been researched and used against him.

This .
The opposition want to fight on their terms.
Changing the law halfway through (benn act) to suit your argument is pretty poor imo. On either side.
The people should vote on no deal not the MPs stopping the choice.
What are they scared of ? The voters.

 

[SocketRocket]

Heat and kitchen, crime and time etc etc.

Seems to be moves afoot for a vote of no confidence sooner than anticipated.

Tell me if Johnson loses and some kind of stand in govt is formed, when a GE does come around will Johnson still be party leader to fight that election? I can't quite follow if that's what Johnson now wants. If he loses a vote of confidence many seem to think that's the end of him politically.
Would he be the first to be PM twice (not continuous) if he did win GE?

I can throw that one straight back to you. You were the one suggesting Boris was using every dirty trick in the book and I put it back thats just what remain MPs have been doing taking over the order paper.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

You seem to be struggling Doon...unable to give a straight answer to a VERY simple question.

I’ll repeat it...

“How would you feel if the government did their best to prevent Scottish independence after a 52%-48% victory? “

I double dare you Doon. 😜

Right, now I can understand what you were trying to say I shall answer your question even if you cannot understand my initial reply

I accepted the 2014 result. It was a close call for me as I believed the last minute No Thanks actions of The Vow was made in good faith. [Obviously it was not]
The actions of the Westminster government in backtracking on virtually every promise made to the Scottish electorate after the election I took great exception to.
Like many fence sitters Cameron's actions pushed me on the full support for an Independent Scotland

The 52/48 result you mention is hypothetical and I do not know how to answer it as it would depend on the hypothetical electioneering and the hypothetical actions of the Westminster and Scottish governments once the results had come in.

 

[User62651]

What about you Maxie, you want to have a go answering my question in post 14044?
I know you start hearing Mel Gibson crying “Freedom” when you have been pruning too much Laurel!😁

Quite content being British and inside the EU, ta very much. You'll have to explain the laurel thing, haven't heard that b4.

 

[Taz]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1178005099760799744

 

[Fade and Die]

Quite content being British and inside the EU, ta very much. You'll have to explain the laurel thing, haven't heard that b4.

Laurel is one of the most dangerous plants in a British garden...

http://www.thepoisongarden.co.uk/atoz/prunus_laurocerasus.htm

Be careful out there!

 

[Fade and Die]

Right, now I can understand what you were trying to say I shall answer your question even if you cannot understand my initial reply

I accepted the 2014 result. It was a close call for me as I believed the last minute No Thanks actions of The Vow was made in good faith. [Obviously it was not]
The actions of the Westminster government in backtracking on virtually every promise made to the Scottish electorate after the election I took great exception to.
Like many fence sitters Cameron's actions pushed me on the full support for an Independent Scotland

The 52/48 result you mention is hypothetical and I do not know how to answer it as it would depend on the hypothetical electioneering and the hypothetical actions of the Westminster and Scottish governments once the results had come in.

Well I suppose you did your best!😂

 

[clubchamp98]

Well I suppose you did your best!😂

I missed the answer there can you translate.

 

[Dando]

I missed the answer there can you translate.

It was blah blah blah waffle waffle waffle

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I missed the answer there can you translate.

Get a grip man, you are greeting because I would not give an answer to an obscure hypothetical question that suits your narrow political view.

 

[Foxholer]

Why not, every dirty trick in the book has been researched and used against him.

With that amendment, I'd agree! Just as I'd agree that he has, or has probably contemplated every (dirty?) trick in the book to achieve his aim! And as long as it's legal to do so, there's nothing wrong with that imo! The 'verdict' on whether it's deemed 'proper' to do so will come via the ballot box!

Personally, I believe it's the ONLY way the referendum result will be implemented!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I don't have a Scooby if he knows as much as you or not. Maybe it would be better to ask him rather than me

Wasn’t actually asking you - but if you have a scoobies about Gatt24 is he - in your opinion - right or wrong about leaving with no deal and trading immediately under terms of Gatt24.