drdel
Tour Rookie
Surely you know that your 'question(s)'merely prolong the meaningless bickering.
Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!
- Thread starter drdel
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Surely you know that your 'question(s)'merely prolong the meaningless bickering.
Foxholer
Blackballed
If it means a few wrong attitudes are corrected - or at least highlighted as being 'factually wrong' (and/or worse), then I believe it's worthwhile! I can generally ignore meaningless bickering but when based on wrong/false attitudes, I'm inclined to step in and 'correct' - an attitude probably formed from many years umpiring/refereeing (at quite a high level) several sports!
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Because it’s a fact.
Something that’s been lost on a lot of parliamentarians.
And Farage is not my leader!
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Hm! So a Burcow of the Forum, a correcting hand to our falsehoods, a bringer of order to that which has become erratic, a pedant who dots our Is and crosses our Ts. Makes me wonder who regulates the regulator, I guess the answer is 'The Mods' god bless em 🤔
Fade and Die
Medal Winner
Jump forward a few years Doon, indyref 2... leave 52% remain 48%, huge turnout etc. Then 3 years later the U.K. government is still refusing to accept the result. People are saying you didn’t know what you voted for (maybe questioning your intelligence!) they say it’s impossible to extricate Scotland from the U.K. as you’re too intertwined with us. Your own MPs are doing their damnedest to stop Scotland leaving.
Be honest Doon, how would you feel? Would you go gentle into the good night? Hardly.
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
Disagree, Leavers keep repeating the 17.4 million as the biggest vote in history.
If what you said was true, that figure would then have been quoted as 33 million +
The vote was won with that amount.
I've not seen anyone state it was the biggest win of all time....
They usually say it was the biggest vote of all time, with 17.4m wanting brexit. None of that is false.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
What is often added is that Leave won an overwhelming mandate based upon the number of votes cast - rather than the margin - and that is obviously disingenuous.
And as far as being labelled a hypocrite for posting here when I said I wouldn’t. Well - as I said - when the circumstances and facts change then I am allowed to change my mind. And as they have then so have I. It’s a weird sort of hypocrisy that includes changing of mind.
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
Once again for those not paying attention
There has been significant change to the Edinburgh agreement since 2014.
ELEV and the rise of English Nationalism.
UK [England in reality] taking Scotland out of the EU and when the Naesayers said that by voting for them was the ONLY way Scotland could STAY in the EU.
Some Scots people were daft enough to believe the lies that the Naysayers were spinning.
You will lose your pension was a Labour doorstep plan when meeting elderly residents. One of the factors in Labours demise in Scotland.
You cannot use the £. another whopper.
You will be forced to drive on the right.
You will lose the Monarchy. Etc Etc.
I think the same scenario is playing out in England with the difference that many are too stubborn to admit they were conned.
drdel
Tour Rookie
Its a discussion forum, not a sport that requires points or penalties, just a collectively of opinions. No more, no less.
Fade and Die
Medal Winner
Once again for those not paying attention
There has been significant change to the Edinburgh agreement since 2014.
ELEV and the rise of English Nationalism.
UK [England in reality] taking Scotland out of the EU and when the Naesayers said that by voting for them was the ONLY way Scotland could STAY in the EU.
Some Scots people were daft enough to believe the lies that the Naysayers were spinning.
You will lose your pension was a Labour doorstep plan when meeting elderly residents. One of the factors in Labours demise in Scotland.
You cannot use the £. another whopper.
You will be forced to drive on the right.
You will lose the Monarchy. Etc Etc.
I think the same scenario is playing out in England with the difference that many are too stubborn to admit they were conned.
Did you quote my post by accident? As your reply has no relevance whatsoever to my question.😂
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
No - no Doon filters on. The High court judgement and the Supreme Court judgement were not equivalent - yet such as Cleverly continue to suggest that the high court found in favour of the government - balancing off the Supreme Court judgement - and that is simply not true. And you can call a statement of something that is factually untrue whatever you want.
Just as Gove has been saying that - following a readiness review - industry is saying that it is ready. And some at that meeting are telling us that that is an incorrect conclusion to draw - what much of industry is saying is that they think they have done what they can but that that is very far from mitigating the impact of leaving - especially in the event of a No Deal exit.
And I read this morning that Redwood is saying kill the negotiations just go for No Deal and trade under Gatt24 with something like the EU-Canada agreement being what we want to end up with. Does he not understand that Gatt24 requires a framework/target EU-UK agreement in place as a pre-requisite for trading under Gatt24? Leaving with no deal agreed hardly seems consistent with that requirement.
As Cleverly as Gove and Redwood. All at best being extremely disingenuous.
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
I tried to interpret it as best I could but found it a bit difficult to understand.
Unsure what you were actually asking for so I drew my comparisons of the two referendums I had experienced.
Sorry if my reply was not the one you were searching for.
When you say 'your' MP's do you mean Scotland's or the SNP's.
Fade and Die
Medal Winner
Either.
Me thinks you are stuck for a genuine reply as your support of independence is a clash with your support to stay in the EU...
Strange times we live in eh? When the opposition does not want a General Election and a Nationalist party does not want independence! 😂
Foxholer
Blackballed
Corrector of falsehoods - where I see them - certainly; I-dotting, T-crossing pedant - occasionally. But certainly not 'bringer of order'. That (Burcow) role is purely a Mods one!
Foxholer
Blackballed
U
User62651
Guest
How do you know, because Boris says so ?
That's just a wind up, playground stuff and it's not working as a tactic. Even a lot of Tory MPs and members were embarrassed by the Corbyn KFC chicken thing. They have agreed to a GE as soon as an extension to Art50 is in place and you know it.
We all know the current situation with 31st Oct /No Deal/Prorouging/finding a legal dodge to get round the Benn bill etc, every dirty trick in the book will be researched by PM.
Opposition parties do not have to jump to a desperate PM the second he says do what I want, they know he's in trouble and is a conniving character so what's a few more weeks. Opposition parties are right imo to try and make sure the Art50 extension is sorted before any election (if PM cannot get a deal by then). It also puts the onus firmly on PM to try and get a deal with EU, something that does not appear to be getting anywhere at the moment. All PMs efforts should be there just now.
PM cares about himself that's why he's hellbent on leaving Oct31 'do or die' and will break/bend the law for it, he stupidly set a red line on it during leadership contest to become PM and has hamstrung himself in doing so. All bluster.
Those deal or no deal deadlines of mid and end October have to be sorted before we go to a GE.....imo. One thing at a time.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
I don't have a Scooby if he knows as much as you or not. Maybe it would be better to ask him rather than me
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
Either means you do not understand the situation as 13 Scottish Tory MP's and about 3 Tory SMP's support Johnson.
No one expects them to be returned next election.
Re strange times, it is just tactics.
Once Johnson cannot achieve Brexit by 31st Oct he and the Tory are finished.
The more Militant SNP supporters would like their party to support LBJ and call a pre Brexit Election as they see that route quicker to gaining Independence
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Taz
Journeyman Pro
this will help settle things down :
The purpose of a "caretaker" government is expanding. The original idea was that, following a successful vote of no confidence against the Johnson government, Mr Corbyn would have a shot at forming a caretaker government.This would have explicit/limited purpose of applying to Brussels for an extension to Article 50 (to stop no deal on October 31st) then calling general election. Both acts to be done in matter of weeks. This is the way the SNP is moving. But LDs don't want Mr Corbyn as caretaker. Other "caretaker" PMs have been mentioned, all leading "Remain" figures, from K Clarke to M Beckett. But now it's been suggested (see today's Times) that such a figure should not be a "caretaker" but lead a so-called "government of national unity". This is a very different kettle of poisson. There's talk that, having secured a long extension to Article 50, a GNU would then plan for a 2nd referendum followed by a general election. This could see it in power for up to a year, as oppose to the caretaker's couple of weeks.
The purpose of a "caretaker" government is expanding. The original idea was that, following a successful vote of no confidence against the Johnson government, Mr Corbyn would have a shot at forming a caretaker government.This would have explicit/limited purpose of applying to Brussels for an extension to Article 50 (to stop no deal on October 31st) then calling general election. Both acts to be done in matter of weeks. This is the way the SNP is moving. But LDs don't want Mr Corbyn as caretaker. Other "caretaker" PMs have been mentioned, all leading "Remain" figures, from K Clarke to M Beckett. But now it's been suggested (see today's Times) that such a figure should not be a "caretaker" but lead a so-called "government of national unity". This is a very different kettle of poisson. There's talk that, having secured a long extension to Article 50, a GNU would then plan for a 2nd referendum followed by a general election. This could see it in power for up to a year, as oppose to the caretaker's couple of weeks.
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