Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[patricks148]

You have double standards, now I understand.

how is it double standards?, what lies has jezza told?? he may have changed his opinion, but not outright lies Boris has sprouted and continues to sprout.

lets agree to disagree.


i don't think Jez is a bad man at heart, he wouldn't be my first choice of PM, but he is way above the current incumbent

 

[Doon frae Troon]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brex...GGo1k?ocid=spartandhp&fullscreen=true#image=2

Speaking of liars.
better read this quickly before the tide comes in.

 

[woody69]

That's the entire problem...It doesn't deliver Brexit!

Yes it does, legally. It might not be a particularly favourable version, but it 100% does deliver Brexit.

 

[woody69]

It's not immigration per se that's the problem! It's uncontrolled immigration!

The vast majority of those non-EU immigrants satisfied set criteria that the UK can change according to its needs. Freedom of movement means that EVERY EU citizen is entitled to come to UK - so that's 'uncontrolled'!

Yes, freedom of movement does mean that every EU citizen is entitled to come to the UK, but the UK government could have simply followed the European Parliament and Council Directive 2004/38/EC, on immigrants entering, but we didn't. The UK is not in the Schengen Area so they have to pass passport control. The UK Government could have registered their entry and carried out the required checks to make sure if they do not have a job or cannot support themselves they are repatriated to the home country.

It could easily be "controlled" but for whatever reason, the UK Government didn't follow it.

You could argue there is "uncontrolled" immigration for the 3 months they are here, but I am not sure that is a particularly valid argument. It has been shown that EU nationals generally contribute more to the UK economy than they take out.

 

[Taz]

Peston - So to reinforce what I said about the gravity of tomorrow’s vote, rumours swirling that Cummings wants to lose (I am not persuaded!) so he can purge Grieve and other rebel Tories and then take on Corbyn’s Labour before 17 October EU council...
He may now feel this the best platform to honour
@BorisJohnson
pledge to leave EU by 31 October. This quite the game of chicken. What is clear to me is events will move very fast if Johnson loses tomorrow.

 

[Taz]

In a nutshell, here is the dilemma for Tory rebels and the opposition Labour Party. If they lose vote tomorrow, they lose their best chance of blocking no deal. And if they win, Johnson will say they have undermined him and forced him to hold general election on a day before... 17 Oct EU council. In my estimation he actively wants to fight Labour and a disunited opposition, so long as they trigger it and he is seen to be resisting - so that he can claim he is only going back to country to honour the people’s earlier vote for Brexit. This may be... a bluff. But it does not feel it. Because Johnson only has a future in 10 Downing Street if he marginalises the Brexit Party and if he secures a working majority. Otherwise he will be the lamest of lame duck PMs and one with minimal political life expectancy

 

[Taz]

A problem for an
@PhilipHammondUK
or
@DavidGauke
who may embrace being kicked out of Tory party to run as an independent candidate in looming general election is they can’t brand themselves as “Independent Conservative” on ballot paper, Electoral Commission tells me. Unless... that is they were given permission to create a new party called the “Independent Conservatives”, or something similar. But they might not get permission. And anyway there probably isn’t time for them to jump through all the hoops to do that, before the likely October election

 

[Old Skier]

Whatever happened to this crew https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/949306/Brexit-News-Nicola-Sturgeon-Autonomy-EU

Seems they all have a bit of a problem.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

In a nutshell, here is the dilemma for Tory rebels and the opposition Labour Party. If they lose vote tomorrow, they lose their best chance of blocking no deal. And if they win, Johnson will say they have undermined him and forced him to hold general election on a day before... 17 Oct EU council. In my estimation he actively wants to fight Labour and a disunited opposition, so long as they trigger it and he is seen to be resisting - so that he can claim he is only going back to country to honour the people’s earlier vote for Brexit. This may be... a bluff. But it does not feel it. Because Johnson only has a future in 10 Downing Street if he marginalises the Brexit Party and if he secures a working majority. Otherwise he will be the lamest of lame duck PMs and one with minimal political life expectancy

I think you are dead right. Boris has hung his career on getting the UK out of the EU on Oct 31st. If he doesn't then he is done. A GE suits him. It gives him a chance to get a majority again, ditch the DUP, strengthen his position. He will fancy his chances against Corbyn, he is good on the road.

I'm not sure why so many are putting all of their energies into blocking no deal when they have no alternative to it. I also think the best chance of avoiding no deal is for Boris to run with no deal. The EU only have to move a mm or 2 and everything will fall into place. They wont do that unless someone pushes them to the wire though. I don't see anything Boris is doing right now, in Parliament or with the EU as a bluff, he can't afford to bluff.

 

[Fade and Die]

Whatever happened to this crew https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/949306/Brexit-News-Nicola-Sturgeon-Autonomy-EU

Seems they all have a bit of a problem.

Absolutely right....

"Marty Smith a co-founder of Autonomy a new grassroots-led campaign group said that SNP policy - to be independent of the UK, but a member of the EU - was not consistent.

He pointed to the bloc's treatment of Greece, which has suffered years of austerity, and the suppression of Catalonia's independence movement, as signs of EU's lack of democracy"


I understand this view...I could never understand how a Nationalist party would want to leave one union for another. Doon explanation please?

 

[SocketRocket]

eh??

many people bring up the whole imigration thing as the reason to leave when infact the current Tory Gov who are using this as an excuse when they did nothing to stop it for the larger influx they could. even setting targets they missed by miles.

so what i'm saying is the Imigration is a bit of a red hearring, people who voted leave because of it were/ are conned

You may be correct but it reinforces our view that immigration has been too high overall and politicians of all parties have let it happen.

 

[patricks148]

Whatever happened to this crew https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/949306/Brexit-News-Nicola-Sturgeon-Autonomy-EU

Seems they all have a bit of a problem.

not sure they do, in fact i have never heard of any SNP supporter questioning SNP policy on the EU.


it says a 3/4 of the membership that voted for Brixit, not a 3rd voted, so could only be him and his mate

 

[Taz]

I think you are dead right. Boris has hung his career on getting the UK out of the EU on Oct 31st. If he doesn't then he is done. A GE suits him. It gives him a chance to get a majority again, ditch the DUP, strengthen his position. He will fancy his chances against Corbyn, he is good on the road.

I'm not sure why so many are putting all of their energies into blocking no deal when they have no alternative to it. I also think the best chance of avoiding no deal is for Boris to run with no deal. The EU only have to move a mm or 2 and everything will fall into place. They wont do that unless someone pushes them to the wire though. I don't see anything Boris is doing right now, in Parliament or with the EU as a bluff, he can't afford to bluff.

Can't take the credit, Peston analysis.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Can't take the credit, Peston analysis.

Ssshhhh, take the credit

 

[SocketRocket]

What they are trying to do is block leaving without a deal, not block brexit. Many of them voted in favour or Theresa May's WA. Had the ERG voted the same, we would have already left.

Thats not answering my question. I asked "What deal do they want" Blocking no deal Brexit is obviously what they keep bleating about but if they achieve that what deal would they vote for? It cant be Maybots deal as that was overwhelmingly dismissed. Come on, tell me as I can't imagine any deal that would satisfy them.

 

[ger147]

A big week coming up. Whether parliament manages to change the law or not to move the 31st Oct date, Boris has no future as PM with a majority of 1, especially with so many of his colleagues sitting behind him on the Tory back benches who oppose his agenda.

So there will deffo be a GE soon, the only question is will it be called this week or not...

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Absolutely right....

"Marty Smith a co-founder of Autonomy a new grassroots-led campaign group said that SNP policy - to be independent of the UK, but a member of the EU - was not consistent.

He pointed to the bloc's treatment of Greece, which has suffered years of austerity, and the suppression of Catalonia's independence movement, as signs of EU's lack of democracy"


I understand this view...I could never understand how a Nationalist party would want to leave one union for another. Doon explanation please?

For about the 100th time...……...…......…...…..

The UK is not a partnership of equals. England can easily out vote anything that Scotland proposes.
Remember 'Better Together' and 'The Vow'. Binned 20 hours after Indyref and we got EVEL instead.

As part of the EU we would have an equal voice and enjoy the sort of support that Ireland is getting from the EU at the mo.

 

[SocketRocket]

A big week coming up. Whether parliament manages to change the law or not to move the 31st Oct date, Boris has no future as PM with a majority of 1, especially with so many of his colleagues sitting behind him on the Tory back benches who oppose his agenda.

So there will deffo be a GE soon, the only question is will it be called this week or not...

A general election may well give Boris a good future.

 

[SocketRocket]

For about the 100th time...……...…......…...…..

The UK is not a partnership of equals. England can easily out vote anything that Scotland proposes.
Remember 'Better Together' and 'The Vow'. Binned 20 hours after Indyref and we got EVEL instead.

As part of the EU we would have an equal voice and enjoy the sort of support that Ireland is getting from the EU at the mo.

Your problem is considering Scotland as something separate in the UNITED KINGDOM.

 

[Taz]

Just seen some tweets/pictures from the Corbyn rally, only a few hundred there