Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

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woody69 said:
How has a discussion around people being content with no deal been done to death? Going back to the "you lost get over it" isn't something I am interested in. I just want to understand how people think a no deal BREXIT, i.e. leave at any cost is acceptable. It was supposed to be the easiest deal in history, we hold all the cards etc. The WA satisfies the legal requirement to exit the EU. Sure it's a terrible deal, but it does deliver BREXIT.
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The simple answer is that until our MPs carry out the majority votes that were cast in Parliament its as per # 11579 because until we are actually allowed to start negotiating properly its stalemate.

Funny how a "I don't know" from a remainer seems acceptable to some but they will not accept the same statement from a leaver.
 
Doon frae Troon said:
I am amazed that kipper packaging and straight banana laws aren't right up there.
Shows the depth of Tory/UKIP/Brexit propaganda that many dimwits are prepared to believe.

Genuinely surprised that we have absolutely no Brexiters on this forum who are able to answer your challenge.
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Yea, can't get my head around dimwits that believed the lies and propaganda of the political classes and are now demanding a second bite of the cherry...
 
Doon frae Troon said:
No, I am having a dig because posters on here who have a very different view from me cannot answer robinthehood's very simple question:LOL:
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Am sure I answered it but it was dismissed. Does that make me a dimwit.

Am sure nigh on 16 million people had a differant view to me. It don't make them dimwits. It means there circumsatnces are differant to mine.What it means to me is that they have a view I respect.
 
Old Skier said:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uk...-allow-foreign-killer-to-stay-in-Britain.html
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The problem with looking at individual cases rather than the bigger picture is you are fed a false narrative that the EU is preventing the UK from deporting criminals, when it simply isn't true, especially when those stories are coming from sources such as the Telegraph.

The UK deported something like over 5000 EU nationals from the UK and they were able to do that because they met the criteria. The woman in that article you posted has been living in the UK for over 6 years when she committed the offence, so was considered to be a permanent resident and it was a UK judge that felt she didn't fall into the criteria of serious grounds under public policy or public security that will justify expulsion.
 


katya adler

@BBCkatyaadler

Sense in EU of confusion, concern plus a deep distrust in Johnson government. Diplomat from country traditionally close to EU that has a lot to lose from no deal #Brexit tells me: "We can see Boris Johnson is playing a game but we don’t understand the rules or the strategy.” /1
EU focus now is dramatically different from beginning of Brexit negotiations when Brussels' plan was undoubtedly to get UK to agree to the most advantageous deal possible seen from the EU perspective BUT /2 With no deal now considered the most likely scenario by EU, the bloc is in self-preservation, damage-limitation mode, with EU leaders wondering how they ..and the EU as a whole .. can emerge from the Brexit drama as unscathed as possible /3 Political leaders - like Merkel or Rutte in NL - very keen indeed that a deal be found. Aware of economic impact of no deal for them at home plus they envisage likely acrimonious EU-UK relationship emerging post no deal that they fear will serve Putin and Trump most of all BUT/4 EU leader keen-ness to find a #Brexit compromise should not be confused as willingness to do whatever it takes to get a deal with UK. EU single market concerns are paramount when looking at alternatives to backstop. Merkel certainly not looking for deal "at any price" /5 PM's EU envoy David Frost is back in Brussels this Weds, possibly Friday too but his visits regarded by EU so far as "optics" aimed at domestic UK audience, rather than negotiating substance. Johnson gov has yet to put realistic alternative to backstop on the table /6
Officially EU position is 1) it awaits UK proposals because 2) the backstop as stands is the only credible solution that fits the UK red lines as set out by Theresa May and recognises unique situation on island of Ireland BUT privately some key EU players thinking... /7 "Did we miss something?" "Were we too focussed on encouraging UK to a closer position with us post #Brexit ?" "Is there a workable alternative to backstop that protects all-Ireland economy and EU single market enough?" One possibility being considered (though viewed by many in EU as leaving too many exploitable holes) is sector-by-sector deal for Irish border conundrum: eg one for vetinary checks, for steel goods etc. Similar to what EU has (and swore never to replicate) with Switzerland. /9 Most simple solution for EU and the PM (in EU's opinion!):A return to original Northern Ireland-only backstop (could be dressed-up as st else if Johnson wants to make it more palatable in UK). Maybe works if Johnson holds election before UK leaves EU + no longer relies on DUP/10 EU musings that pm could hold a NI referendum on Northern-Ireland only backstop in knowledge that NI polls suggest majority there very much in favour /11 BUT bottom line is that EU will only make compromises on backstop - if painful ones for EU - if bloc is convinced that a majority in parliament is guaranteed to approve the revised deal. Right now EU leaders see Johnson doesnt have the numbers /12 Johnson's weakness in parliament impedes deal-making far more than a "Rebel Alliance" threatening to stop no deal on 31 October or EU being or not being fully-convinced of Johnson threat of no deal (NB they ARE convinced and that has made them more willing to engage) /13 I notice that - as so many other times in #Brexit process - both sides misunderstand one another: Johnson&co think no deal threat will make EU cave (but Brussels won't unless a compromise is in their wider interest) and some in EU still think if they refuse to engage.. /14 Then Johnson will buckle just before 31 October, when faced with political, economic cost of no deal. In fact: unlikely he would. Whatever happens, bets are on that EU leaders scheduled summit mid Oct will NOT be final word. Emergency EU summit (or 2) expected later October /15
 
Old Skier said:
The simple answer is that until our MPs carry out the majority votes that were cast in Parliament its as per # 11579 because until we are actually allowed to start negotiating properly its stalemate.

Funny how a "I don't know" from a remainer seems acceptable to some but they will not accept the same statement from a leaver.
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I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean with "are actually allowed to start negotiating properly"?
 
woody69 said:
How has a discussion around people being content with no deal been done to death? Going back to the "you lost get over it" isn't something I am interested in. I just want to understand how people think a no deal BREXIT, i.e. leave at any cost is acceptable. It was supposed to be the easiest deal in history, we hold all the cards etc. The WA satisfies the legal requirement to exit the EU. Sure it's a terrible deal, but it does deliver BREXIT.
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Then why did so many vote against it who now are argueing we should not leave without a deal. What is this deal they consider acceptable. Please tell me because I dont have a scooby what they want.
 
Fade and Die said:
Do you mean you have been blathering on but do not even understand that the U.K. can not negotiate a trade deal until the withdrawal agreement has been agreed? Oh lord.And they call us dim! 😂
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No. I just wasn't sure as to what @Old skier was referring to with that statement. Not sure that ad hominen attack was quite necessary.
Old Skier said:
The UK is unable to conduct FULL trade deals until they actual implement Article 50
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Thank you for clarifying. Unfortunately that is just the way it is. We signed up to A50 which clearly states the WA first and a framework for the future relationship (which is exactly what happened). I guess ff the UK didn't like Article 50 they shouldn't have got Lord Kerr to write it
 
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SocketRocket said:
Then why did so many vote against it who now are argueing we should not leave without a deal. What is this deal they consider acceptable. Please tell me because I dont have a scooby what they want.
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What they are trying to do is block leaving without a deal, not block brexit. Many of them voted in favour or Theresa May's WA. Had the ERG voted the same, we would have already left.
 
SocketRocket said:
Exactly, two wrongs dont make a right
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eh??

many people bring up the whole imigration thing as the reason to leave when infact the current Tory Gov who are using this as an excuse when they did nothing to stop it for the larger influx they could. even setting targets they missed by miles.

so what i'm saying is the Imigration is a bit of a red hearring, people who voted leave because of it were/ are conned
 
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