Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Parsaregood]

For me, in a democracy, if it's no illegal to do something, then it's a democratic right to do so! Vote them out, if you can, by all means - that's your democratic right. Say they are abusing their position if you want (I'm ambivalent on that!). But a fundamental part of UK Democracy (The Court System) has decreed that it's Parliament that is the 'final arbiter'! It's now up to the Government to ensure that that happens! That's how UK Democracy works!

It's also not illegal for Boris to schedule an election after October 31st, therefore leaving on WTO terms by default. You are quite happy that's s democratic right ? 👍😂

 

[Foxholer]

You disagree that countless remainers who campaigned speaking in 2016 saying a no deal WTO outcome was a genuine possibility even though footage has now appeared with many of them speaking of it. The sad thing is a few of them deny this was ever spoken about !

No!

You've (deliberately) misinterpreted my statement.

I disagreed with SR's opinion, then explained why!

 

[Foxholer]

It's also not illegal for Boris to schedule an election after October 31st, therefore leaving on WTO terms by default. You are quite happy that's s democratic right ? 👍😂

Yep!

You are confusing what he is able to do with what (you believe) 'is best for the country'!

 

[Parsaregood]

Yep!

You are confusing what he is able to do with what (you believe) 'is best for the country'!

He is able to do that, I do also believe it to be best but he can do that legally and it's very possible a situation very similar to this will play out with the EU try to compromise in the very last days leading up to the 31st.

 

[SocketRocket]

I disagree!

Just as Remainers (seem to have) made less noise about the 'good' parts of EU membership (compsred to Leavers noise about the 'bad' parts) pre-Referendum, the roles have now reversed. And it's pretty natural for the 'noisy protesters' to (seem to?) be given more publicity than the 'currently content non-protesters'! And the news media unconsciousl contributes to that 'imbalance' too!

Do you disagree we were told a vote to leave meant leaving the EU institutions?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

That's correct. We were told time and time again that a leave vote meant leaving the single market, customs union and EU institutions. It just seems like remainers feel entitled to their wishes having more value than leavers even though the vote went to leave.

Oh for goodness sake - and we were told time and time again that everything the Remain campaign was saying about this was a lie - scaremongering - project fear. So you are now pretending that those who voted to Leave did so believing what the Remain campaign was saying and disbelieving what Leave was saying..get real.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It's also not illegal for Boris to schedule an election after October 31st, therefore leaving on WTO terms by default. You are quite happy that's s democratic right ? 👍😂

For us much as we have an unwritten constitution it is by convention unconstitutional. But none of that stuff seems to matter any more.

 

[SocketRocket]

Oh for goodness sake - and we were told time and time again that everything the Remain campaign was saying about this was a lie - scaremongering - project fear. So you are now pretending that those who voted to Leave did so believing what the Remain campaign was saying and disbelieving what Leave was saying..get real.

I am refering to what the Government told us would happen, not what someone down the pub said. Leaving the EU institutions was not project fear, project fear was 800,000 job losses, a severe economic shock, each family being £3,500 worse off , refugee camps in Dover etc the moment we had a leave vote 🙄 Get real yourself matey

 

[Parsaregood]

Oh for goodness sake - and we were told time and time again that everything the Remain campaign was saying about this was a lie - scaremongering - project fear. So you are now pretending that those who voted to Leave did so believing what the Remain campaign was saying and disbelieving what Leave was saying..get real.

Just about everything the pro-EU remain politicians predicted has so far turned out to be incorrect, I think the problem is nobody ever believed them and now over the last 3 years most people have lost respect for them for the poor conduct they have shown. I can at least respect Cameron, he did what he said he was going to do, walk away if his side lost the referendum. Its a shame so many others on his side cannot show the same dignity

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I am refering to what the Government told us would happen, not what someone down the pub said. Get real yourself matey

No no no. Can't have that sorry.

Leave campaigners said endlessly that what the government and the Remain campaign were saying was exaggerations; lies and Project Fear. Leave told us that should not and cannot believe what the government was telling us. No pretending now that Leave voters believed what they were being told by the government and disbelieved the Leave campaign. No - Leave voters believed what the Leave campaign said. That there would great deal to come; cake and eat it; they need us more than we need them; german car manufacturers etc etc.

 

[Parsaregood]

No no no. Can't have that sorry.

Leave campaigners said endlessly that what the government and the Remain campaign were saying was exaggerations; lies and Project Fear. Leave told us that should not and cannot believe what the government was telling us. No pretending now that Leave voters believed what they were being told by the government and disbelieved the Leave campaign. No - Leave voters believed what the Leave campaign said. That there would great deal to come; cake and eat it; they need us more than we need them; german car manufacturers etc etc.

The leave campaign did not explicitly peddle the argument you state, very selective in what you are saying here. If you believe the German government will allow the biggest importer of their cars in the world to be subject to tariffs not already in place your crazy, I can assure you this will not happen, far too much financial loss and uncertainty for an already flailing German economy.

 

[Hobbit]

Just about everything the pro-EU remain politicians predicted has so far turned out to be incorrect, I think the problem is nobody ever believed them and now over the last 3 years most people have lost respect for them for the poor conduct they have shown. I can at least respect Cameron, he did what he said he was going to do, walk away if his side lost the referendum. Its a shame so many others on his side cannot show the same dignity

Not just the politicians. I believe the Gov of the Bank of England has actually admitted he was wrong. But don't worry, some arrogant super-intelligent zealot Remainer will be along shortly to tell you you are thick/old etc.

 

[User62651]

Just about everything the pro-EU remain politicians predicted has so far turned out to be incorrect, I think the problem is nobody ever believed them and now over the last 3 years most people have lost respect for them for the poor conduct they have shown. I can at least respect Cameron, he did what he said he was going to do, walk away if his side lost the referendum. Its a shame so many others on his side cannot show the same dignity

Sorry to nitpick but Cameron said he would stay as PM no matter the result, then walked away just as his gamble backfired, he did not keep his word and allowed the Maybot into no. 10, no respect is due there.

 

[Hobbit]

Sorry for questioning in your point, whatever it was. Won't happen again.

If you missed the point its obvious that not only leavers are thick.

Seriously though. Question away, please, but question it with something meaningful and original, not superficial. Remainers must keep Leavers honest, and vice versa.

As for your silly question about No Deal, obviously everybody and their dog wants a good deal... but that's where you started to look a little foolish.

I don't want to Leave. Its already costing me hundreds a month as I transfer my pension, and thats without all the other benefits of being in, e.g. healthcare and freedom to travel around Europe as I meander my way back to the UK occasionally.

I refer you back to my post about looking at the questions. But if you can't do that, you're stance is already cast in stone. That would be a shame as there's good on both sides, if you can be bothered to look.

 

[Parsaregood]

Sorry to nitpick but Cameron said he would stay as PM no matter the result, then walked away just as his gamble backfired, he did not keep his word and allowed the Maybot into no. 10, no respect is due there.

He walked away because he didn't believe in what was being asked of him, I can respect that

 

[Hobbit]

No no no. Can't have that sorry.

Leave campaigners said endlessly that what the government and the Remain campaign were saying was exaggerations; lies and Project Fear. Leave told us that should not and cannot believe what the government was telling us. No pretending now that Leave voters believed what they were being told by the government and disbelieved the Leave campaign. No - Leave voters believed what the Leave campaign said. That there would great deal to come; cake and eat it; they need us more than we need them; german car manufacturers etc etc.

Can you give me the lottery numbers.

You know what 17.2 million people believe? Really?

As a Remainer I believed Cameron et al that a vote for Leave would mean leaving the SM and CU. I believed that a vote for Leave would mean leaving AND THEN getting a deal. That's my version, and no doubt there's countless versions thereafter depending on why people chose to Remain or Leave.

But, as usual, you know why every single Leaver voted, what they believed and what they didn't believe.

I suggest its you that needs to get real. You absolutely do not know why different people voted the way they did, do you?

 

[SocketRocket]

No no no. Can't have that sorry.

Leave campaigners said endlessly that what the government and the Remain campaign were saying was exaggerations; lies and Project Fear. Leave told us that should not and cannot believe what the government was telling us. No pretending now that Leave voters believed what they were being told by the government and disbelieved the Leave campaign. No - Leave voters believed what the Leave campaign said. That there would great deal to come; cake and eat it; they need us more than we need them; german car manufacturers etc etc.

Leaving the EU institutions was not project fear, project fear was 800,000 job losses, a severe economic shock, each family being £3,500 worse off , refugee camps in Dover etc the moment we had a leave vote. You are trying to group it all into project fear which is wrong, being told we would leave the single market and customs union was a statement of political intent and you know it.

 

[ger147]

Can you give me the lottery numbers.

You know what 17.2 million people believe? Really?

As a Remainer I believed Cameron et al that a vote for Leave would mean leaving the SM and CU. I believed that a vote for Leave would mean leaving AND THEN getting a deal. That's my version, and no doubt there's countless versions thereafter depending on why people chose to Remain or Leave.

But, as usual, you know why every single Leaver voted, what they believed and what they didn't believe.

I suggest its you that needs to get real. You absolutely do not know why different people voted the way they did, do you?

Cue the James O'Brien references...

 

[Foxholer]

Do you disagree we were told a vote to leave meant leaving the EU institutions?

Certainly by some of them.

We were told all sorts of things - by politicians!

 

[SocketRocket]

Certainly by some of them.

We were told all sorts of things - by politicians!

I'm referring to the Prime Minister.