Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Fade and Die]

If the remainers could accept the result of the original referendum I think we could move forward, then maybe go to the country with 2 options.

Leave with WTO deal or Leave but remain in the customs union...Imo most remain voters would happily swing behind the latter option, it would stop the Labour party trying to be all things to all men and would enable the issue to be put to bed, once and for all. Those Tories in parliament who will never support no deal would, I believe, immediately come onside and the threat of an immediate general election, and a Corbyn government, would be averted.
If both sides agreed to respect the result we might resolve this thing once and for all. It does need a shift of position from the remainers though.

 

[chrisd]

More convincing? To who and isn’t he the person who when the Referendum went the way of his campaigning bottled it ?

And is he really happy with No Deal or just more of his empty words

And if Corbyn has big issues what do the Tories have to fear in a GE ?

I think you appear to be pining your hopes that a Leave PM will suddenly change it all around despite nothing fundamentally changing

I'm not saying he will win so until he does it all irrelevant

No I dont think he wants no deal but will take it if a better deal isn't available

Both Labour and Conservatives should fear a GE after the caning in the last 2 votes

I'm not pinning MY hopes on anything, at my age I doubt either leaving or staying is going to much affect my life

 

[Kellfire]

I'm not pinning MY hopes on anything, at my age I doubt either leaving or staying is going to much affect my life

And sadly it was that attitude that arguably led us down this dreadful path in the first place, with the older generation voting down a better future for their children and their children’s children and so on.

 

[Old Skier]

And sadly it was that attitude that arguably led us down this dreadful path in the first place, with the older generation voting down a better future for their children and their children’s children and so on.

And it was the children who couldn't be arrsed, once again, to go and vote. Just like the two on the news yesterday What Election".

 

[Kellfire]

And it was the children who couldn't be arrsed, once again, to go and vote. Just like the two on the news yesterday What Election".

Yep, if nothing else let’s hope that Brexit teaches younger voters not to trust the older generation to do the right thing at the polls.

 

[Old Skier]

Yep, if nothing else let’s hope that Brexit teaches younger voters not to trust the older generation to do the right thing at the polls.

Nice to know you have a sense of humor.

 

[chrisd]

And sadly it was that attitude that arguably led us down this dreadful path in the first place, with the older generation voting down a better future for their children and their children’s children and so on.

You misunderstand, I voted for Brexit because I'm certain that the younger generation will benefit from being out of a failing European experiment and in years to come will appreciate that they were saved from the crash when it happens 👍

Like most older Brexit voters we aren't doing it for ourselves but to give our grandchildren a much better future not harmed by unelected Europeans. They will benefit from the ability that opening up the whole world for trade etc will bring

 

[Kellfire]

You misunderstand, I voted for Brexit because I'm certain that the younger generation will benefit from being out of a failing European experiment and in years to come will appreciate that they were saved from the crash when it happens 👍

Like most older Brexit voters we aren't doing it for ourselves but to give our grandchildren a much better future not harmed by unelected Europeans. They will benefit from the ability that opening up the whole world for trade etc will bring

Better to listen to the younger generation and let them decide what they want. Avoids confusion and mistakes.

 

[drdel]

Better to listen to the younger generation and let them decide what they want. Avoids confusion and mistakes.

In a vast number of countries across the globe they benefit, build on and choose to learn from the previous generation

 

[Papas1982]

Better to listen to the younger generation and let them decide what they want. Avoids confusion and mistakes.

Whilst i can see logic in suggesting that those most affected should have the choice. What suggests that youth and most likely lack of experience will avoid mistakes being made?

 

[SocketRocket]

Better to listen to the younger generation and let them decide what they want. Avoids confusion and mistakes.

No it doesn't. I don't see a young generation that have a vision and clarity of thought that would steer the country in the right direction. They are no different than any other previous young generation, maybe worse ln many cases due to the influence of social media and feelings of entitlement. Life experience exposes charlatans and political BS.

 

[Dando]

Better to listen to the younger generation and let them decide what they want. Avoids confusion and mistakes.

You mean the younger generation who couldn’t be arsed to vote?

 

[chrisd]

Better to listen to the younger generation and let them decide what they want. Avoids confusion and mistakes.

If that were the case we'd have the kids telling the parents what time to go to bed etc

Having said that, there are a generation of young people who always think they know best but realise in later life all their "I know what's best for me" is nothing more than the arrogance of youth. There are some younger people on this forum who always know best 👍

 

[Kellfire]

What suggests that youth and most likely lack of experience will avoid mistakes being made?

The age range of the Brexit referendum in 2016.

 

[Papas1982]

The age range of the Brexit referendum in 2016.

How does that prove anything? Nobody knows what a Brexit will actually entail. It's all just he said, she said. So your simply basing your confidence on youth on nothing more than the fact they voted the way you wanted them too as opposed to any actual proof.

 

[Hobbit]

The age range of the Brexit referendum in 2016.

There’s one indispensable fact surrounding that referendum. The youth had a massive opportunity but many didn’t bother voting. That’s how much the youth cared about the issue.

The people that cared about the U.K. voted. And where were the younger ones?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Whoa a lot of statements here being thrown at the younger generation that isn’t great

Younger generation not having the clarity to steer the country in the “right” direction ?! What’s the right direction - is that the direction you want it to go towards , since when does it make it “right” ?

Shall we just stop them voting then ? If they clearly don’t know what is best for the country why bother letting them vote - what age shall we start allowing them a voice ?

You “older generation “ were allowed to shape your future - were given a voice so why can’t the current younger generation be allowed to shape their future ?

How arrogant is it to dismiss them with such disdain

The older generation stating - I’m certain the youth will benefit from my decision? What if you are wrong - what make your decision more right than theirs ? They are the ones working day and night alongside their neighbours and can see the benefits that brings - maybe instead of presuming what you think is right for the “younger generation” actually ask them what they want and how they want to move forward- it’s them that will have to live with whatever decision is made so maybe it’s best they make the choice as opposed to people who won’t be affected

Maybe the best way is to cut off the vote at say anyone who is still working only and under the age of 60 - that’s who it’s going to affected

And yes for the referendum there was just 50% of people aged between 18 and 30 I think it was who voted - could be for all manner of reasons beyond “not caring” but I have a feeling if there was a second vote there would be a very big turnout from them. The younger generation want to stay in the EU , they see the benefits and it appears want to keep that strong relationship in their futures - surely that can’t be dismissed so easily.

 

[Papas1982]

Whoa a lot of statements here being thrown at the younger generation that isn’t great

Younger generation not having the clarity to steer the country in the “right” direction ?! What’s the right direction - is that the direction you want it to go towards , since when does it make it “right” ?

Shall we just stop them voting then ? If they clearly don’t know what is best for the country why bother letting them vote - what age shall we start allowing them a voice ?

You “older generation “ were allowed to shape your future - were given a voice so why can’t the current younger generation be allowed to shape their future ?

How arrogant is it to dismiss them with such disdain

The older generation stating - I’m certain the youth will benefit from my decision? What if you are wrong - what make your decision more right than theirs ? They are the ones working day and night alongside their neighbours and can see the benefits that brings - maybe instead of presuming what you think is right for the “younger generation” actually ask them what they want and how they want to move forward- it’s them that will have to live with whatever decision is made so maybe it’s best they make the choice as opposed to people who won’t be affected

Maybe the best way is to cut off the vote at say anyone who is still working only and under the age of 60 - that’s who it’s going to affected

And yes for the referendum there was just 50% of people aged between 18 and 30 I think it was who voted - could be for all manner of reasons beyond “not caring” but I have a feeling if there was a second vote there would be a very big turnout from them. The younger generation want to stay in the EU , they see the benefits and it appears want to keep that strong relationship in their futures - surely that can’t be dismissed so easily.

Over dramatic much???

All those comments were made in response to a comment where the older generation were told they'd effectively ruined the youngsters future.
I saw as little respect shown to the older guys as you've apparently seen disdain shown towards younger folk.

 

[Hobbit]

Whoa a lot of statements here being thrown at the younger generation that isn’t great

Younger generation not having the clarity to steer the country in the “right” direction ?! What’s the right direction - is that the direction you want it to go towards , since when does it make it “right” ?

Shall we just stop them voting then ? If they clearly don’t know what is best for the country why bother letting them vote - what age shall we start allowing them a voice ?

You “older generation “ were allowed to shape your future - were given a voice so why can’t the current younger generation be allowed to shape their future ?

How arrogant is it to dismiss them with such disdain

The older generation stating - I’m certain the youth will benefit from my decision? What if you are wrong - what make your decision more right than theirs ? They are the ones working day and night alongside their neighbours and can see the benefits that brings - maybe instead of presuming what you think is right for the “younger generation” actually ask them what they want and how they want to move forward- it’s them that will have to live with whatever decision is made so maybe it’s best they make the choice as opposed to people who won’t be affected

Maybe the best way is to cut off the vote at say anyone who is still working only and under the age of 60 - that’s who it’s going to affected

And yes for the referendum there was just 50% of people aged between 18 and 30 I think it was who voted - could be for all manner of reasons beyond “not caring” but I have a feeling if there was a second vote there would be a very big turnout from them. The younger generation want to stay in the EU , they see the benefits and it appears want to keep that strong relationship in their futures - surely that can’t be dismissed so easily.

The only point I made was they didn't vote when they had the chance. I didn't state how they might have voted.

But a question back at you, and using a few of your words; how arrogant is it to dismiss the older generation by suggesting they no longer vote if they aren't working and have reached 60? And does that mean that all the young ones at uni, i.e. not working shouldn't be allowed to vote?

Your post is just as appalling as those decrying the younger generation. You tar yourself, very well, with the same brush.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Kiss me where the sun don't shine
The past was yours
But the future's mine