Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Kellfire]

And Brexiteers believe they are doing the best for the UK, including Remainers. All depends on how someone wants to spin it.

Oh, absolutely. The individuals point of view is important - I fail to understand why Brexiteers can't see the toxicity and racist undertones of the likes of Farage and Robinson. No doubt, Brexiteers think that Remainers are brainwashed by the EU.

 

[Slime]

This is why the ignore function is great on this forum 👍

I can't put Kellfire on ignore, he/she makes me laugh with all his faux opinions, bad grammar and childish angst.
He or she is hilarious.

 

[Hobbit]

Oh, absolutely. The individuals point of view is important - I fail to understand why Brexiteers can't see the toxicity and racist undertones of the likes of Farage and Robinson. No doubt, Brexiteers think that Remainers are brainwashed by the EU.

Maybe many Leavers actually think Farage/Robinson are racist bigots but chose Leave for different reasons, e.g. increasing federalism.

 

[Kellfire]

bad grammar

Hey now, whilst I may sometimes drop into colloquialisms, overall I have an excellent standard of the written word - don't get personal.

 

[Kellfire]

Maybe many Leavers actually think Farage/Robinson are racist bigots but chose Leave for different reasons, e.g. increasing federalism.

When they say this, they rarely seem to back it up. They mention things like immigration and the ability to set our own laws, and then show blatant lack of understanding of the immigration rules and just how few laws actually stem from the EU.

 

[Hobbit]

When they say this, they rarely seem to back it up. They mention things like immigration and the ability to set our own laws, and then show blatant lack of understanding of the immigration rules and just how few laws actually stem from the EU.

And the same can be said of many Remainers who, incidentally, have Toxic Tony the warmonger as their poster boy.

On the issue of setting their own laws; the U.K. has objected to xxx laws from the EU, and lost 84% of those objections. Sure looks like the U.K. doesn’t control its own laws. And an aside to the laws, there’s the EU directives.... there’s substance in some of the sovereignty argument.

Just playing Devil’s Advocate to show how subjective the majority of the argument is for both sides.

 

[robinthehood]

Oof,
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...tor-while-giving-interview-outside-parliament

 

[Old Skier]

Let's look at it from a remainers point of view - we're trying to do the best for the general public including the vast majority of brexiteers. We believe the vote to leave will materially harm society on the whole. Why wouldn't we do everything to do the best for everyone?

Who is this WE, are you talking about the minority again.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I would imagine that Doon and other pro-Scottish independence forum members will have been delighted with the announcement today from Theresa May. The headline might as well have been "Theresa May gives green light for Scottish Indy Ref 2" as she can't very well accept the possibility of a 2nd referendum on membership of the EU and reject the possibility of a 2nd referendum on Scottish independence.

Not really, I have friends and relatives in England and Wales and I would not like to see them stuck with a Johnson/Farage fudge running rUK. Mind you a couple of the Essex crowd are all for it..

May is certainly the best recruiting officer that the Independence movement has had, probably better than Farage now.

I see The Ruth Davidson Party [aka Scots Tories] and Viceroy Muddle have gone topsy turvy yet again about supporting Johnson and second referendums.
Mind you it's only Wed. probably be a different story again come Fri.

 

[Old Skier]

Oh, absolutely. The individuals point of view is important - I fail to understand why Brexiteers can't see the toxicity and racist undertones of the likes of Farage and Robinson. No doubt, Brexiteers think that Remainers are brainwashed by the EU.

They do, it appears to be remainers who seem to give them the oxygen of publicity.

 

[Kellfire]

Who is this WE, are you talking about the minority again.

There are two different matters. What was the majority in the vote that took place in 2016? Brexit.

What is the majority opinion across the country now? I think we both know that it's to remain.

So no, I don't think I am in the minority as things stand and I completely disagree with the idea of pushing ahead with Brexit, given what we know now and the issues it will create.

 

[Old Skier]

When they say this, they rarely seem to back it up. They mention things like immigration and the ability to set our own laws, and then show blatant lack of understanding of the immigration rules and just how few laws actually stem from the EU.

Perhaps you can explain why the Government cannot give British Steel due to EU rules on competitiveness. Do you think such EU legislation is good for the thousands who may be about to lose their jobs.

 

[Old Skier]

There are two different matters. What was the majority in the vote that took place in 2016? Brexit.

What is the majority opinion across the country now? I think we both know that it's to remain.

So no, I don't think I am in the minority as things stand and I completely disagree with the idea of pushing ahead with Brexit, given what we know now and the issues it will create.

You do not know what the voting intentions are of the British Public so why do you post such nonsense. Please don't quote polls, it was polls that said Remain would win the referendum.

I appreciate that you posts are purely to wind people up with no real facts to back it up.

 

[Kellfire]

I appreciate that you posts are purely to wind people up with no real facts to back it up.

...and you resort to that. I hate to use cliches but “enough said”.

 

[robinthehood]

Perhaps you can explain why the Government cannot give British Steel due to EU rules on competitiveness. Do you think such EU legislation is good for the thousands who may be about to lose their jobs.

Massively simplistic view on British steel. And Even outside the EU there are still restrictions on state aid.

 

[Old Skier]

...and you resort to that. I hate to use cliches but “enough said”.

So tell me how you know the voting intentions of the voting public.

 

[Foxholer]

...
And as for Gordon Brown he called for an investigation into the Brexit party's funding and said 'Democracy is fatally undermined if unexplained, unreported and thus undeclared and perhaps under the counter and underhand campaign finance – from whom and from where we do not know – is being used to influence the very elections that are at the heart of our democratic system. ' Not sure that constitutes a smear in my book, to me it more of a better understanding of democracy than many seem to have.

While I agree with the gist of Brown's statement (not all) and HK's summary of it, though I'm not (yet) convinced that an investigation is warranted!

I'm afraid the 'mud sticks' analogy also applies. And, to me, that's not 'democracy'!

 

[Old Skier]

Massively simplistic view on British steel. And Even outside the EU there are still restrictions on state aid.

But you cannot ignore the fact that part of the problem is EU legislation when it comes to loaning them bail out money.

 

[Beezerk]

So tell me how you know the voting intentions of the voting public.

Because the figures he's chosen to read have fitted his mindset.
No one knows the outcome if another Referendum were to happen, all I do know is the MP's are full of absolute guff and it's those who seem to be saying that the UK now wants to remain.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

There are two different matters. What was the majority in the vote that took place in 2016? Brexit.

What is the majority opinion across the country now? I think we both know that it's to remain.

So no, I don't think I am in the minority as things stand and I completely disagree with the idea of pushing ahead with Brexit, given what we know now and the issues it will create.

Can you provide some facts to back this up please?