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Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

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Mudball said:
Nails it... Leave was a vote to 'send a message', people are disenfranchised due to a variety of reasons and our incompetent residents of WasteMinisters piled it onto foreigners and benefits et al.. Then Cameron and his gang made a right Eton Mess of the country..
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The only message I sent them was that I wanted the UK to leave the EU so it would be an independent country. Nothing to do with being disenfranchised, what ever that means.
 
SocketRocket said:
The only message I sent them was that I wanted the UK to leave the EU so it would be an independent country. Nothing to do with being disenfranchised, what ever that means.
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independent as 1 or 4? So an united country of 4 working together or 4 countries ...
 
I think what this thread shows and all over social media in tbe Government , work and in fact all over the country - is that this vote has torn the country apart , it’s made us a laughing stock , it’s drawn a big trench right down the middle of the country , it’s enabled normally mild mannered people become very angry and overall people have become more selfish

This vote and process is imo going to damage the country for a long time - I’m not talking about financially because no one will know what happens in that sense until it’s finished but as a country we are going to be divided and a mess for a long time - there are going to be a hell of a lot of “I told you so” etc etc - the resentment against this whole process just gets bigger and bigger
 
Liverpoolphil said:
I think what this thread shows and all over social media in tbe Government , work and in fact all over the country - is that this vote has torn the country apart , it’s made us a laughing stock , it’s drawn a big trench right down the middle of the country , it’s enabled normally mild mannered people become very angry and overall people have become more selfish

This vote and process is imo going to damage the country for a long time - I’m not talking about financially because no one will know what happens in that sense until it’s finished but as a country we are going to be divided and a mess for a long time - there are going to be a hell of a lot of “I told you so” etc etc - the resentment against this whole process just gets bigger and bigger
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Completely bang on.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
I think what this thread shows and all over social media in tbe Government , work and in fact all over the country - is that this vote has torn the country apart , it’s made us a laughing stock , it’s drawn a big trench right down the middle of the country , it’s enabled normally mild mannered people become very angry and overall people have become more selfish

This vote and process is imo going to damage the country for a long time - I’m not talking about financially because no one will know what happens in that sense until it’s finished but as a country we are going to be divided and a mess for a long time - there are going to be a hell of a lot of “I told you so” etc etc - the resentment against this whole process just gets bigger and bigger
Click to expand...

Not like you to put a negative spin on something is it.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
I think what this thread shows and all over social media in tbe Government , work and in fact all over the country - is that this vote has torn the country apart , it’s made us a laughing stock , it’s drawn a big trench right down the middle of the country , it’s enabled normally mild mannered people become very angry and overall people have become more selfish

This vote and process is imo going to damage the country for a long time - I’m not talking about financially because no one will know what happens in that sense until it’s finished but as a country we are going to be divided and a mess for a long time - there are going to be a hell of a lot of “I told you so” etc etc - the resentment against this whole process just gets bigger and bigger
Click to expand...
No it didn't, the vote was simple and only needed a Yes or No to be enacted. The only thing that has torn the country apart is people not accepting the result and working against it.

Get a grip on reality, this is a golf forum with a bunch of golfers having a battle, I mean debate over Brexit. The world is not watching us with bated breath for the next onslaught, I mean posting.
 
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Beezerk said:
Not like you to put a negative spin on something is it.
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Tell me something positive that’s happening right now because of the vote and the process

SocketRocket said:
No it didn't, the vote was simple and only needed a Yes or No to be enacted. The only thing that has torn the country apart is people not accepting the result and working against it.
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That’s always the same answer is it - people not accepting the result - which people is that exactly ? Are “people” not allowed to voice their concerns or disappointments at the result and the process ? Are “people” not allowed to carry out their democratic right to see if people have changed their mind ? Do “people” just have to “shut” up and accept it then ?

Maybe one day people like you will understand you are as much as part of the bad feeling with this whole process as the MP’s making a mess of it - your whole attitude and people like you towards people who voted leave and want to stay in the EU adds nothing but resentment and right now growing towards hatred.

It’s fairytale stuff that people like you think it was just a yes or no and then follow it through - we are that entwined within Europe it was always going to be a complete mess to leave.

The country is a mess right now and the divide is going to get bigger and nastier
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Tell me something positive that’s happening right now because of the vote and the process



That’s always the same answer is it - people not accepting the result - which people is that exactly ? Are “people” not allowed to voice their concerns or disappointments at the result and the process ? Are “people” not allowed to carry out their democratic right to see if people have changed their mind ? Do “people” just have to “shut” up and accept it then ?

Maybe one day people like you will understand you are as much as part of the bad feeling with this whole process as the MP’s making a mess of it - your whole attitude and people like you towards people who voted leave and want to stay in the EU adds nothing but resentment and right now growing towards hatred.

It’s fairytale stuff that people like you think it was just a yes or no and then follow it through - we are that entwined within Europe it was always going to be a complete mess to leave.

The country is a mess right now and the divide is going to get bigger and nastier
Click to expand...
To quote a well known poster here. 'Utter Twaddle'

I will Replace 6 divots and repair 12 pitchmarks your perfectness (y)
 
Hobbit said:
Nice to see you're still at your most obnoxious best. Isn't it past your bedtime yet Lego boy?
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Is everyone a Lego boy if they disagree? Disappointed in your creativity ☹️.

But back on topic, the majority of the vote was not enough to make it straight forward.
All of this was quite predictable, article 50 going through the house like a spinach vindaloo was more likely a bit of tactical voting. If you see the time line and have a rough grasp of the complexity, you would say they pushed the article 50 button, too quickly. So if you have a Machiavellian streak you would have voted for article 50 and then played a game on all the other votes... is that right or wrong ? Dunno don’t care it was naive from the get go.
 
SocketRocket said:
To quote a well known poster here. 'Utter Twaddle'

I will Replace 6 divots and repair 12 pitchmarks your perfectness (y)
Click to expand...

Just about sums up your dismissive arrogance 👍 oh well I’ll pop back in a week or so to see if anything useful is posted
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Tell me something positive that’s happening right now because of the vote and the process



That’s always the same answer is it - people not accepting the result - which people is that exactly ? Are “people” not allowed to voice their concerns or disappointments at the result and the process ? Are “people” not allowed to carry out their democratic right to see if people have changed their mind ? Do “people” just have to “shut” up and accept it then ?

Maybe one day people like you will understand you are as much as part of the bad feeling with this whole process as the MP’s making a mess of it - your whole attitude and people like you towards people who voted leave and want to stay in the EU adds nothing but resentment and right now growing towards hatred.

It’s fairytale stuff that people like you think it was just a yes or no and then follow it through - we are that entwined within Europe it was always going to be a complete mess to leave.

The country is a mess right now and the divide is going to get bigger and nastier
Click to expand...
But why is there a divide?
There was a referendum in 2011 about an alternative voting system. Whichever side lost accepted it and moved on.
Ok, this is bigger but the principle is, or should, be the same.
One side won, one side didn't
Any animosity, other than that aimed at the pathetic group currently sitting in Westminster, is down to the side that lost the vote not getting behind the decision and working towards obtaining the best possible exit strategy.
If that had happened, both politicians and the general public, we might not be in the mess we are in.
Those that voted leave want to leave, those that voted to stay, or didn't even vote, haven't, in significant numbers, accepted that they didn't win the vote and are trying their hardest to derail the process by whatever means they can.
 
harpo_72 said:
Is everyone a Lego boy if they disagree? Disappointed in your creativity ☹️.

But back on topic, the majority of the vote was not enough to make it straight forward.
All of this was quite predictable, article 50 going through the house like a spinach vindaloo was more likely a bit of tactical voting. If you see the time line and have a rough grasp of the complexity, you would say they pushed the article 50 button, too quickly. So if you have a Machiavellian streak you would have voted for article 50 and then played a game on all the other votes... is that right or wrong ? Dunno don’t care it was naive from the get go.
Click to expand...

When Robin first started posting on the thread he was quite reasonable. As people questioned his postings he got a little tetchy. More recently its been a stream of childish one liners, 99% of which I ignore. Tonight I posted an analogy about expertise and got a snotty response. I responded in kind, i.e. at his level. Debate my opinion, fine. Diss it out of hand and I give it back. Sorry it doesn't meet with your approval but hey, its Friday and its only a debate on an emotive subject.

I don't think the raising of Article 50 was too quick nor too slow, it is what it is, but I do think the British govt expected an easy ride off the EU and a equitable deal would arrive. I think the EU have played a blinder, and not necessarily particularly straight, e.g. what authority does Corbyn have to negotiate a deal t this moment. Divide and conquer, and the EU are masterful at it. And yes, I do think the British govt have been naive.
 
Imurg said:
But why is there a divide?
There was a referendum in 2011 about an alternative voting system. Whichever side lost accepted it and moved on.
Ok, this is bigger but the principle is, or should, be the same.
One side won, one side didn't
Any animosity, other than that aimed at the pathetic group currently sitting in Westminster, is down to the side that lost the vote not getting behind the decision and working towards obtaining the best possible exit strategy.
If that had happened, both politicians and the general public, we might not be in the mess we are in.
Those that voted leave want to leave, those that voted to stay, or didn't even vote, haven't, in significant numbers, accepted that they didn't win the vote and are trying their hardest to derail the process by whatever means they can.
Click to expand...
A very good post that sums up the situation very well.
 
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