Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Hacker Khan]

More that faith in Politicians is dead.
Politicians offered us the question and said they would enact the result.
If they can't give the majority what they voted for in, let's face it, the biggest thing in UK politics for years, then how can we trust them to do anything?
They can promise us anything in the run up to the next GE
How can we have any faith that they will do it?
Having "promised" to enact the leave vote, if they fail to do that they are slapping the faces of all those who voted to leave. Plus a number of those who voted to stay who have accepted the result.

Don't disagree with any of that. Everyone has been let down by inept politicians from the very start of the whole process. But that to me does not mean democracy is completely dead, more that we really need a better calibre of politician who understands how to compromise for the betterment of society as a whole.

 

[Hacker Khan]

No HK, dont worry, leaving is not allowed under any circumstances... No vote against them has ever been allowed to stand, just as the UK Ref will not be.

hey, if the tories could of got their &^^& together last night we'd be out on the 29th.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

The sooner this smoke and mirrors is over with the better, the MPs don’t want brexit. They are trying to make such a hash of it that they can go “we tried our best but it was impossible” if they wanted us to leave it would have been sorted

 

[Foxholer]

Stealing from someone cleverer than me on Twitter

'Any referendum can be either democratic or irreversible, but not both. Just as no parliament can bind a successor, it follows that no electorate can do either. Any democracy can change its mind at any time. Else it is not a democracy.'
...

I disagree with the bit in bold - at least practically! Otherwise I agree!

That's why the UK version of 'democracy' is (normally) a 'representative' one, as opposed to a 'direct' one! The referendum result directed (h'mm!) the government to Leave, so it is up to the government to do exactly that - while maintaining the best interests of the UK! Anything alternative view is, imo, simply an excuse to overturn the result of the earlier referendum!

 

[Hacker Khan]

I disagree with the bit in bold - at least practically! Otherwise I agree!

That's why the UK version of 'democracy' is (normally) a 'representative' one, as opposed to a 'direct' one! The referendum result directed (h'mm!) the government to Leave, so it is up to the government to do exactly that - while maintaining the best interests of the UK! Anything alternative view is, imo, simply an excuse to overturn the result of the earlier referendum!

I think we are seeing what happens when when there is a majority in parliament that feel that leaving the EU is not in the best interests of the UK.

 

[Sweep]

I don’t care and have no interest in Labour’s role in Brexit.
It was in the tory’s remit to make them irrelevant.
You are trying to get me to say:
A. Labour have been great.
B. Labour has been bad.

Why are you or anyone else bringing Labour in to the Brexit argument? If she’d of got her own house in order whether Labour behaved one way or another or I was happy or not is irrelevant.

PS If it was roles reversed I wouldn’t care about the tories role in Brexit either.

I am not trying to get you to say anything. You seem intent on defending Labour on all fronts but don’t seem to be able to defend them on their own record, other than they are not as bad as anyone else. That might be good enough for you but it isn’t for me or I suspect enough voters to get them elected.
I believe that the Opposition have an important part to play in our democracy and holding the government to account. But they have flip-flopped over Brexit and seem to be at odds with each other just as much as the Tories. The Tories have been there for the taking and Labour has not only failed to do so but have actually managed to lose ground in the polls against the worst government of my lifetime. That tells me they wouldn’t have done any better on Brexit if they were in power than the Tory government has. That is my view. I was just wondering if you agreed with me or do you really think Labour can do no wrong?

 

[Sweep]

I think we are seeing what happens when when there is a majority in parliament that feel that leaving the EU is not in the best interests of the UK.

Understatement of the year!
All of which would be fine. Except the majority of the nation disagrees with them. Oh, and it’s the majority of the nation who put MP’s into Parliament. So you have MP’s openly defying the people they represent. That can never end well.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I am not trying to get you to say anything. You seem intent on defending Labour on all fronts but don’t seem to be able to defend them on their own record, other than they are not as bad as anyone else. That might be good enough for you but it isn’t for me or I suspect enough voters to get them elected.
I believe that the Opposition have an important part to play in our democracy and holding the government to account. But they have flip-flopped over Brexit and seem to be at odds with each other just as much as the Tories. The Tories have been there for the taking and Labour has not only failed to do so but have actually managed to lose ground in the polls against the worst government of my lifetime. That tells me they wouldn’t have done any better on Brexit if they were in power than the Tory government has. That is my view. I was just wondering if you agreed with me or do you really think Labour can do no wrong?

Seriously, what part of, I have no opinion or interest in Labour on Brexit do you not get?

I am not defending or praising them. They could of been the greatest opposition ever with the greatest Brexit plan, the tories still had it and do have it in their control to ignore them.

Why are you so intent on bringing Labour in to the Brexit argument? It’s a deflection and red herring imo.

Everybody outside the tories only saw the deal 3 months ago, what about the previous 2 years!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Understatement of the year!
All of which would be fine. Except the majority of the nation disagrees with them. Oh, and it’s the majority of the nation who put MP’s into Parliament. So you have MP’s openly defying the people they represent. That can never end well.

Not strictly factually correct is it ?

 

[Old Skier]

Not strictly factually correct is it ?

The majority that " could be bothered to vote" might fit.

 

[Foxholer]

I think we are seeing what happens when when there is a majority in parliament that feel that leaving the EU is not in the best interests of the UK.

Indeed! But 'it was ever thus'!

Cameron's blunder was thinking that the UK public would feel the same - or could not be convinced otherwise!

 

[drdel]

I think we are seeing what happens when when there is a majority in parliament that feel that leaving the EU is not in the best interests of the UK.

I agree but the defectors from the result of the referendum who were in Parliament should have had their argument before the majority across the Parties invoked Art 50 (or before they let a majority agree to holding a referendum)!

 

[Foxholer]

Total confusion!!

 

[Old Skier]

Total confusion!!

That was the plan Moriarty .

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Was really expecting a landslide vote against no deal... interesting.

May ordered her MPs to vote against it so not surprised

 

[bladeplayer]

So at the min
Its NO to No Deal
Its NO to TM and EU current deal
Its NO to looking for extension

Is that right ?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So at the min
Its NO to No Deal
Its NO to TM and EU current deal
Its NO to looking for extension

Is that right ?

The extension vote is tomorrow I believe but you have the rest right

 

[bladeplayer]

The extension vote is tomorrow I believe but you have the rest right

Thank u . Was not sure if i had that right .
Cant see 27 agreeing to extension with elections coming up .

Dont know anymore 😕

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Thank u . Was not sure if i had that right .
Cant see 27 agreeing to extension with elections coming up .

Dont know anymore 😕

No idea mate - it’s am embarrassing mess , they have pretty voted that we won’t ever leave with a no deal so unless a deal is done we won’t leave I guess ? All a bit of a joke

 

[Kellfire]

Understatement of the year!
All of which would be fine. Except the majority of the nation disagrees with them. Oh, and it’s the majority of the nation who put MP’s into Parliament. So you have MP’s openly defying the people they represent. That can never end well.

You still don’t get how our parliament works.

We elect people to make decisions for us because they have more information than we do. If they think it’s correct NOT to Brexit then they should work to stop it from happening.

Sadly they aren’t altruistic and will seek to secure their own future in parliament even when they know the masses have made mistakes, like when they voted for Brexit.