Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Foxholer]

... fwiw, I'm not interested in your opinion.

Fwiw. I don't care whether you are or not! It's a forum, so everyone is entitled to expess their opinion!

 

[SocketRocket]

Fwiw. I don't care whether you are or not! It's a forum, so everyone is entitled to expess their opinion!

Of course you are but I'm also at liberty to have no interest in it. Fwiw. 🙄

 

[Foxholer]

Of course you are but I'm also at liberty to have no interest in it. Fwiw. 🙄

Zzzzzzzzzzzz! (Fwiw of course!)

 

[Crazyface]

Oh dear oh dear .. i genuinely do not know what to say to that except i do hope ur just on a wind up for d craic

Nope, just tend to see things really simply. Why the hell does the world have to be complicated?

Can you explain to me why this just isn't possible, with calling me or pointing out the massive history between England / Ireland / and the formation of N.Ireland. IE so all this aside why can't we just do what I said.

 

[Old Skier]

Momentum forced Corbyns hand.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Credit to Coldwar Steve

 

[bladeplayer]

Nope, just tend to see things really simply. Why the hell does the world have to be complicated?

Can you explain to me why this just isn't possible, with calling me or pointing out the massive history between England / Ireland / and the formation of N.Ireland. IE so all this aside why can't we just do what I said.

Man i apologise i just cant answer u, i just dont know what to say cept u either dont know the history u asked me not to point out to u or u live in a bubble. (that may sound rude it is not meant to ).. .. im totaly bemused (is that a word) by both ur posts if life was as simple as u say ther would b no problems in the world ar all ..
Actually im quiet stunned by both ur posts and had to read them numerous times to c was i reading them incorrectly

 

[SocketRocket]

View attachment 26669

Credit to Coldwar Steve

Very amusing, although I don't get why the Soap Stars and Kim Jong Un are in that boat. Are they on a booze cruise or illegal immigrants?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I am well aware of most of your history lessons (Scottish ancestors!): professionally I've assisted many Scottish organisations and Universities as well as English companies locating to Scotland.

I did not select 'Hungary' it was at that point in the population ranking. I do not share your view that Scotland would prosper independent of the UK because the full cost for Defence, Transport infrastructure, etc . etc would be prohibitive.

My questions did not originate from a media that you, unnecessarily label Unionist.

I asked a civil question: why did you need to go OTT with this last para? its exactly the reaction that seems to prevent a rational dialogue.

Yes sorry for the last para. it was a general observation and not really aimed at you.

Defence....compare what Scotland's share of UK defence is compared to an independent Ireland. [£3.5b...to £0.8b off the top of my head] Trident ?
Compare the positioning of UK defence establishments pro rata between England and Scotland
Like many small countries Scotland has no real desire to police the rest of the world

Transport......….Scotland also is very strategically placed in the North Atlantic with a decent transport infrastructure within the central belt and three good airports. We do lack a bit in Ferry terminals and high speed trains. I make a regular journey from South Ayrshire to East Lothian coast to coast. It usually takes me 2.5 hours. 3 during busy times such as the Festival, and 2 if I am in a hurry.
Scotland also supplies the rUK with a decent chunk of its Gas, Oil, Water and clean electricity. [plus whisky, gin, shortbread and jam of course ]

 

[SocketRocket]

Yes sorry for the last para. it was a general observation and not really aimed at you.

Defence....compare what Scotland's share of UK defence is compared to an independent Ireland. [£3.5b...to £0.8b off the top of my head] Trident ?
Compare the positioning of UK defence establishments pro rata between England and Scotland
Like many small countries Scotland has no real desire to police the rest of the world

Transport......….Scotland also is very strategically placed in the North Atlantic with a decent transport infrastructure within the central belt and three good airports. We do lack a bit in Ferry terminals and high speed trains. I make a regular journey from South Ayrshire to East Lothian coast to coast. It usually takes me 2.5 hours. 3 during busy times such as the Festival, and 2 if I am in a hurry.
Scotland also supplies the rUK with a decent chunk of its Gas, Oil, Water and clean electricity. [plus whisky, gin, shortbread and jam of course ]

And tartan golf towels.

 

[Sweep]

And in their opinion and mine, it would be wrong to agree to a bad deal, the power/control to avoid the 2nd referendum still lies with TM.

I am not sure anyone has suggested we should sign a bad deal.
Of course what I consider a bad deal may differ from your idea of a bad deal.
The issue is that Labour are backing a second referendum if TM doesn’t adopt THEIR idea of a good deal. Up until now what they wanted was not feasible or meant us leaving without leaving.
I imagine this is not what millions of Labour voters wanted when they voted to leave. The fact that Starmer wants the option to remain on a second referendum ballot will anger many in Labour heartlands. And rightly so.

 

[Sweep]

Why would you have any right to feel that? UK chose to leave the EU, not the other way around! They (the EU negotiators) are (supposedly) acting in the best interests of the members that remain!

I think we have answered that one countless times.
I would add though that in the eyes of the EU, you should be treated better if you have never joined, paid in billions and supported the union for decades. You know, like Canada or Japan who seem to get great deals with no mention of customs unions, FOM, law supremacy.....

 

[User62651]

u

I am not sure anyone has suggested we should sign a bad deal.
Of course what I consider a bad deal may differ from your idea of a bad deal.
The issue is that Labour are backing a second referendum if TM doesn’t adopt THEIR idea of a good deal. Up until now what they wanted was not feasible or meant us leaving without leaving.
I imagine this is not what millions of Labour voters wanted when they voted to leave. The fact that Starmer wants the option to remain on a second referendum ballot will anger many in Labour heartlands. And rightly so.

It may delight even more. Maybe we should find out, now there is more clarity of what leaving actually entails.
Boris and Gove seem awfully quiet these days.

 

[Sweep]

Apology accepted thank you.

Scotland has an economy that is very different to England and will be hit very hard by Brexit. Especially agriculture and fisheries.

Read up on the McCrone report for surprising information. With held for over 40 years by Westminster as they were so afraid of it's impact on the Scots.
Scotland relates more to Norway than England read up about the different way that Norway have handled their finances, as an independent country of 'a few millions', they seem to be doing very nicely.
Bear in mind Scotland who the last 300 years have had their finances and investment controlled by Westminster. Over the last 60 years Scots, pro rata, have paid a higher income into the UK pot than the other three regions.
Look at an independent Scotland compared to other small European Countries. You gave probably the worst example in Hungary, you could have said Denmark, Norway, Ireland instead.

Please do not judge Scotland from the pages of the Unionist controlled newspapers and BBC. look a bit deeper and surprise yourself.

I would be genuinely interested to know why brexit will impact badly on Scottish fisheries.

 

[Mudball]

Well two reports out this week severerly undermine the Breshit gravy train.
1) The Govt assessment of No Deal impact seems to impact everyone and see the economy shrinking almost everywhere except the South/London. So much for our golden future ahead
2) Net Immigration figures (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47400679 ) show that EU figures are down but immigration from outside EU has increased. So much for FOM baiters. Maybe we should withdraw from all blocks like WTO, NATO, etc and draw up the drawbridge.

 

[Sweep]

Yes sorry for the last para. it was a general observation and not really aimed at you.

Defence....compare what Scotland's share of UK defence is compared to an independent Ireland. [£3.5b...to £0.8b off the top of my head] Trident ?
Compare the positioning of UK defence establishments pro rata between England and Scotland
Like many small countries Scotland has no real desire to police the rest of the world

Transport......….Scotland also is very strategically placed in the North Atlantic with a decent transport infrastructure within the central belt and three good airports. We do lack a bit in Ferry terminals and high speed trains. I make a regular journey from South Ayrshire to East Lothian coast to coast. It usually takes me 2.5 hours. 3 during busy times such as the Festival, and 2 if I am in a hurry.
Scotland also supplies the rUK with a decent chunk of its Gas, Oil, Water and clean electricity. [plus whisky, gin, shortbread and jam of course ]

Whilst I understand that Scotland has no desire to police the rest of the world or indeed pay for it, I am sure an independent Scotland would still like to be protected by those of us who do pay and will continue to do so.
I am not sure of your point about the positioning of UK defence establishments. They have to go somewhere and anyway, we are full down here 😀. Are you saying if you join the EU an independent Scotland would take no EU army bases or house an EU nuclear deterrent?

 

[Crazyface]

Man i apologise i just cant answer u, i just dont know what to say cept u either dont know the history u asked me not to point out to u or u live in a bubble. (that may sound rude it is not meant to ).. .. im totaly bemused (is that a word) by both ur posts if life was as simple as u say ther would b no problems in the world ar all ..
Actually im quiet stunned by both ur posts and had to read them numerous times to c was i reading them incorrectly

I know my posts seem ridiculous, thanks for not tearing into me, but if only things could be simple we'd get a lot more done instead of all this bluddy argueing all the time.

 

[Sweep]

u


It may delight even more. Maybe we should find out, now there is more clarity of what leaving actually entails.
Boris and Gove seem awfully quiet these days.

I am just wondering what it is no-one understood about leaving in 2016 that is so clear now. If anything it’s less clear now than ever.
I think you will find that the ERG (Boris et al) have chosen not to rock the boat right now and have decided to see what TM comes back with, as has been widely reported.

 

[Slime]

Man i apologise i just cant answer u, i just dont know what to say cept u either dont know the history u asked me not to point out to u or u live in a bubble. (that may sound rude it is not meant to ).. .. im totaly bemused (is that a word) by both ur posts if life was as simple as u say ther would b no problems in the world ar all ..
Actually im quiet stunned by both ur posts and had to read them numerous times to c was i reading them incorrectly

Have you tried reading your own?
(That may sound rude it is not meant to).

 

[Crazyface]

Well two reports out this week severerly undermine the Breshit gravy train.
1) The Govt assessment of No Deal impact seems to impact everyone and see the economy shrinking almost everywhere except the South/London. So much for our golden future ahead
2) Net Immigration figures (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47400679 ) show that EU figures are down but immigration from outside EU has increased. So much for FOM baiters. Maybe we should withdraw from all blocks like WTO, NATO, etc and draw up the drawbridge.

Reports? Jesus H, when we voted OUT, remember that, OUT, even the man in charge of the Bank Of England. someone who I would hope is a damn sight more intelligent than all our current MP#s put together, I mean he's handling our COUNTRIES finances, said things would go to hell in a hand cart and they haven't. So if he can't predict it right, what xchance has anyone else producing a "report". Hey. I know I'll put out a "report" that says it's all going to be bluddy marvellous and the sun will forever shine on England when we leave on the 29th of March. Will you believe that then?