Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Hacker Khan]

Tonight Barnier is saying that the backstop is "part and parcel" of the Brexit deal and will not be renegotiated. I'm not sure whether "part and parcel" is actually recognised as an expression in France or whether it has been loosely translated from what he actually said but if the EU sticks to that position then that must make No Deal much more likely.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47061650

Suspect the choice will come down to no deal or a very slightly modified version of the current deal. And difficult to call which way that will go if it is last chance saloon time.

 

[Foxholer]

Sorry to break your 'rules': I'll probably incur your wrath again so I'll apologise in advance to save time.

Relax - tis merely a comparison and my opinion. Just pointing out that most negotiations run sorting past liabilities and future strategies/plans in parallel - that's just my experience of EU major procurement projects, Government PFI's and global commercial mergers.

Those are all commercial exercises (even though PFI has developed a 'bad value' reputation - not all I hasten to add - and gone rather out of favour in UK). Completely different from the concept of running a country.

After all, if 'UK Ltd' was a real company, it would have gone bust quite some time ago! As would very many other countries. That surely demonstrates the folly of treating countries as if they were companies!

Btw. I made no mention of 'Rules' - simply a desire to avoid misleading analogies! No 'wrath' either; I agree with much/most of what you post and you appear to be well placed to comment - if from a somewhat (perhaps reasonably/understandably, from experience) slanted ('biased' is probably too strong) pov, which, again, I have no issue with!

 

[Sweep]

Calm down dear...
You’re right, only Tesco & Pat Val have ever been naughty in the corporate world!
1 - Multi National Companies also deal in Billions
2- Company money isn’t company money, it’s shareholder money
3- no one is allowed to act outside of the rules. I don’t remember stating that they could. Can you point it out for me?

1. I don’t recall any multi-national company dealing in billions submitting accounts “with significant errors”. Probably because it’s illegal.
2. Not always. The EU gets its money from member nations who get their money from taxpayers. Taxpayers have no choice whether to “invest” in the EU or not and by how much. Shareholders can buy and sell as they please.
3. You mitigated probable fraud in the EU by saying some companies did the same thing. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Like I said, show me where I said it was ok to break the rules.

 

[Sweep]

Can hardly blame the EU. Hardly going to tear up two and a half years of negotiation, which was signed off by our PM (who also decided to spend a few months having an election in the midst of it) only for the PM to come back 60 days from B-day and say it's not what she wanted after all. What a state.

People keep saying she “signed off on the deal”. What does that even mean? In reality she agreed to the deal subject to Parliament approval and the EU negotiators agreed to it subject to EU Parliament approval. The EU Parliament snapped her hand off and agreed to the deal in 40 minutes. That should tell you all you need to know about who the deal was good for. The UK Parliament took a lot longer to reject the deal.
Mrs May was prevented from agreeing the deal because she was forced to hold a meaningful vote in Parliament. She did not have authority to sign the deal, only to take it back for approval. In other words, there was no deal. Just because the EU say that’s as far as they are going to go does not change the fact that there was no deal. Just because the EU thought the UK Parliament might be daft enough to agree the deal does not change the fact that without both Parliaments approval, there was no deal.

 

[Sweep]

Like I said, show me where I said it was ok to break the rules.

Show me where I said you said it was OK to break the rules. 😀 I didn’t. I did say you mitigated the EU breaking the law by saying some companies did the same thing. Which you did.

 

[Sweep]

Tory MP's acting as a baying mob to stop the leader of the third largest party at Westminster from speaking.
Home of Democracy I don't think so.

May prattling on about a Scottish Border blissfully unaware that many Scots would be happy with a border if it meant we remained in the EU.

Many or a majority?

 

[Sweep]

I want to be part of an Independent Scotland within the EU.
I would consider that a vast improvement to the incoming UK hard Brexit.

Funny how it is whinging when you relate to the Scots but 'FREEDOM' for UKOK Brexiteers.

Keep dreaming.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Show me where I said you said it was OK to break the rules. 😀 I didn’t. I did say you mitigated the EU breaking the law by saying some companies did the same thing. Which you did.

No I didn’t, you think I did, but you’re wrong.

 

[Sweep]

No I didn’t, you think I did, but you’re wrong.

You did. You say you didn’t, but you did.😀

 

[chrisd]

People keep saying she “signed off on the deal”. What does that even mean? In reality she agreed to the deal subject to Parliament approval and the EU negotiators agreed to it subject to EU Parliament approval. The EU Parliament snapped her hand off and agreed to the deal in 40 minutes. That should tell you all you need to know about who the deal was good for. The UK Parliament took a lot longer to reject the deal.
Mrs May was prevented from agreeing the deal because she was forced to hold a meaningful vote in Parliament. She did not have authority to sign the deal, only to take it back for approval. In other words, there was no deal. Just because the EU say that’s as far as they are going to go does not change the fact that there was no deal. Just because the EU thought the UK Parliament might be daft enough to agree the deal does not change the fact that without both Parliaments approval, there was no deal.

It seems that the 7 most important words have been forgotten by many

"Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed"

 

[Hobbit]

Cracks appearing? The Polish president has met with Merkel and asked her to use her influence with the EU negotiators to bend a little. He wants a Deal, not a No Deal.

Dutch fruit and veg growers appeal to their govt to put pressure on Brussels. The Dutch export €1.2bn worth of fruit and veg to the UK. They are already contracted to deliver after Brexit and are concerned that they won't be able to do so.

 

[oxymoron]

People keep saying she “signed off on the deal”. What does that even mean? In reality she agreed to the deal subject to Parliament approval and the EU negotiators agreed to it subject to EU Parliament approval. The EU Parliament snapped her hand off and agreed to the deal in 40 minutes. That should tell you all you need to know about who the deal was good for. The UK Parliament took a lot longer to reject the deal.
Mrs May was prevented from agreeing the deal because she was forced to hold a meaningful vote in Parliament. She did not have authority to sign the deal, only to take it back for approval. In other words, there was no deal. Just because the EU say that’s as far as they are going to go does not change the fact that there was no deal. Just because the EU thought the UK Parliament might be daft enough to agree the deal does not change the fact that without both Parliaments approval, there was no deal.

I thought this was the case as well , i cannot remember someone saying the remaining EU members voted on it either but i am getting Brexit bamboozled now there is so much rubbish\fantasy\falsehoods* flying about !
Its about time we realised we are all part of the UK and stopped this pointless regional infighting it just stirs the pot , a lot of opportunism by various parties does no good what so ever and if people are too blinded by
their hate for others, well its time you took a good look at yourselves .I for one am sick and tired of some of the Scots contingent laying everything they perceive wrong with the world at Englands door , its been snowing
is that our fault as well ? , bloody hell lets give misplaced patriotism a rest untill we sort the current situation out . And please note i said "some of the Scots contingent" .
* select the one you want

 

[User62651]

I thought this was the case as well , i cannot remember someone saying the remaining EU members voted on it either but i am getting Brexit bamboozled now there is so much rubbish\fantasy\falsehoods* flying about !
Its about time we realised we are all part of the UK and stopped this pointless regional infighting it just stirs the pot , a lot of opportunism by various parties does no good what so ever and if people are too blinded by
their hate for others, well its time you took a good look at yourselves .I for one am sick and tired of some of the Scots contingent laying everything they perceive wrong with the world at Englands door , its been snowing
is that our fault as well ? , bloody hell lets give misplaced patriotism a rest untill we sort the current situation out . And please note i said "some of the Scots contingent" .
* select the one you want

It's Brexit not 'everything'. No different to 'some' of the English blaming everything they perceive wrong with the world at the EU's door. Some of us are sick of that too.
We Scots have no say in this Brexit really, always outvoted so there will be frustration from 'some' in that. You should be happy that having a moan is all we Scots can do wrt Brexit, England has the power in this.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It's Brexit not 'everything'. No different to 'some' of the English blaming everything they perceive wrong with the world at the EU's door. Some of us are sick of that too.
We Scots have no say in this Brexit really, always outvoted so there will be frustration from 'some' in that. You should be happy that having a moan is all we Scots can do wrt Brexit, England has the power in this.

You have had the same say in this as we did - one vote ? we English havent had any extra say , no extra vote - the government who speak for all UK are the ones doing the deal

The vote was as a whole UK not single countries within the union

 

[oxymoron]

It's Brexit not 'everything'. No different to 'some' of the English blaming everything they perceive wrong with the world at the EU's door. Some of us are sick of that too.
We Scots have no say in this Brexit really, always outvoted so there will be frustration from 'some' in that. You should be happy that having a moan is all we Scots can do wrt Brexit, England has the power in this.

Did you not take part in the referendum ? Will stop there as Liverpoolphil beat me to it .

 

[User62651]

You have had the same say in this as we did - one vote ? we English havent had any extra say , no extra vote - the government who speak for all UK are the ones doing the deal

The vote was as a whole UK not single countries within the union

No point retreading all this really. We are leaving and we have to accept that. Just responding to yet another anti Scottish post. That's why it was posted I'm sure, for a bite? People are allowed to disagree.

Dress it up all you like, every single voting area of our country within the UK voted remain, that is a unified position so surely you'd expect that to be respected, also we had one Tory MP at the time of the referendum, D Mundell so Tory views on Europe are not representative to us. I think it's not unreasonable to defend that view if we like. As I said earlier wont make a hoot of difference anyway.

 

[oxymoron]

No point retreading all this really. We are leaving and we have to accept that. Just responding to yet another anti Scottish post. That's why it was posted I'm sure, for a bite? People are allowed to disagree.

Don't mean it to be an anti Scottish post , and if you read it properly you would see that . I respect your opinion and was not looking to make people "bite" , just my opinion .
Then again looking at your post , is that anti English ? You trying to get a bite ?
Every area of Scotland voted to stay in the EU but the UK as a whole voted out , i understand your displeasure at not getting what you want as a group but that's the thing with voting , some will always be
disappointed .

 

[Foxholer]

Like I said, show me where I said....

Show me where I said you said ...

No I didn’t, you think I did, but you’re wrong.

You did. You say you didn’t, but you did.😀

How old are you guys?
This really is playground stuff

 

[drdel]

Cracks appearing? The Polish president has met with Merkel and asked her to use her influence with the EU negotiators to bend a little. He wants a Deal, not a No Deal.

Dutch fruit and veg growers appeal to their govt to put pressure on Brussels. The Dutch export €1.2bn worth of fruit and veg to the UK. They are already contracted to deliver after Brexit and are concerned that they won't be able to do so.

Reality has never been popular in the EU Commission.

When Juncker, Tusk and Barnier stop grandstanding and look outside they might see that Singapore manages to operate very effficient crossing border controls. Not exactly the same but pretty close.