Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

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Doon frae Troon said:
Deficit is only because of UK accounting mechanism.
We also have huge debt responsibilities forced upon us by successive UK governments.

Funny how nobody talks about GERS nowadays ;) I remember when that was used non stop to 'frighten' Scotland.
Strange that there was never a GREE, wonder why that was.

We will be just fine, especially once all the EU companies move their UK bases to Scotland.
We will probably follow the examples of Norway, Denmark, Ireland etc they seem to be doing very well as part of the EU.
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Surprised you haven’t mentioned the figures or have you refrained because that also shows a loss ?

Forced upon you ? Nope just your countries responsibility towards the nation debt - contribute to the debt so must help pay it off

Which EU companies do you expect to move to Scotland and why would they ?

Ireland doing well due to EU subsides
 
Tashyboy said:
Fortunately. Have not visited this roundabout thread for a bit.
But just to recap.
Theresa May and the EU agreed to a deal that the EU leaders voted on and accepted in 20 mins.
Theresa May and the EU deal was overwhelmingly rejected in the HOP.
Now a new deal has been agreed in the HOP.
TM is going back to the EU to ask for a small change to the deal.
The EU said there will be no change to the original deal, one in which TM agreed to.

Hmmm. Can anyone else see no deal on the horizon getting bigger.
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The HOC has not agreed any deal, they only agreed 2 amendments/statements, one to say that they did not want a no deal and one to say that the backstop should be replaced by something else. But no details whatsoever on what that would be. And even those did not get agreed by big majorities. Plus 'a small change' is the backstop which is a fundamental part of the deal from the EUs perspective to protect one of their member nations. Always has been and always will.
 
woofers said:
Bit rich of the EU guys (a couple of weeks ago ?) to say “tell us what you want”, and then when we do, say “thanks, but we not changing anything”. How can you negotiate with that ? Surely you can only walk away?
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Like a cat teasing a mouse ...
 
Buckle up for the cliff edge folks.
How mad is May becoming ……..27 countries say no yet she is still going to Brussels to waste her time.
She is now so desperate that she needs the support of Labour/SNP/Anybody to get the original deal through Parliament.
 
ColchesterFC said:
Unfortunately immediately slapped down by Donald Tusk and the Irish government saying that the Withdrawal Agrrement is not open for renegotiation. If anything I think that tonight could have taken us closer to a No Deal exit than we were before despite a majority in the HoC being against it. Unless the EU are willing to change their minds and look again at the Irish Backstop I can't see how a deal is going to get through Parliament and before we know it we'll arrive at 29th March with no agreement and be leaving by default with no deal.
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I think your correct, the votes last night have pretty much moved it to this status.
 
Doon frae Troon said:
Buckle up for the cliff edge folks.
How mad is May becoming ……..27 countries say no yet she is still going to Brussels to waste her time.
She is now so desperate that she needs the support of Labour/SNP/Anybody to get the original deal through Parliament.
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She loves a chocolate waffle an chips .... there should be a fly on the wall documentary, bet it will show no negotiations
 
Worrying! But probably inevitable/sensible.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47060676

Easy enough to move back again should there be a significant change to negotiations.

I expect other banks/financial institutions will follow.

harpo_72 said:
I think your correct, the votes last night have pretty much moved it to this status.
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I agree - and that's probably what triggered the Barclays move too!

Still. EU member states, particularly the main contributor(s), if not the EU itself, could lose even more than UK from a 'No Deal'!
 
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Doon frae Troon said:
We will be just fine, especially once all the EU companies move their UK bases to Scotland.
We will probably follow the examples of Norway, Denmark, Ireland etc they seem to be doing very well as part of the EU.
Click to expand...

Liverpoolphil said:
Which EU companies do you expect to move to Scotland and why would they ?

Ireland doing well due to EU subsides
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Haven't we been told for the past two years that EU companies will be moving out of the UK and into the EU due to Brexit. If all of these companies are moving when we leave which ones will be left to move to Scotland in the event of Scotland voting for independence and then voting to join the EU?

As for your evidence of countries doing well in the EU, you have chosen Ireland who as Phil has said has received billions of Euros in subsidies from the EU over the last few years and only became a net contributor in 2016. The other two, Denmark and Norway, are two of the highest taxed countries in Europe. And as another minor point Norway aren't members of the EU. So, do you want to become full members of the EU or follow the Norway model of being in the EEA where you will have to follow the rules without being in the discussions creating them?

With your population size you would get around 13/14 MEPs if you were an EU member based on Denmark and Slovakia having similar numbers for a similar sized population. How much sway do you think that would give Scotland in terms of decision making. You talk about being treated as an equal partner as a member of the EU when that is quite obviously nonsense. You will be a minor inconvenience that will have decisions imposed on you according to other countries' wishes.
 
Hacker Khan said:
I'm doing much the same and have invested part of my portfolio into 5 pints of guinness.
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:D Likewise, a glass or 2 of Chianti with my Macaroni Cheese - while it's reasonably priced! Touch of 'patriotism' about the Broccoli and Stilton soup (with which the Chianti also works!) beforehand!
 
Hacker Khan said:
The HOC has not agreed any deal, they only agreed 2 amendments/statements, one to say that they did not want a no deal and one to say that the backstop should be replaced by something else. But no details whatsoever on what that would be. And even those did not get agreed by big majorities. Plus 'a small change' is the backstop which is a fundamental part of the deal from the EUs perspective to protect one of their member nations. Always has been and always will.
Click to expand...

Considering all the things that have been agreed on, re leaving the EU. It is one thing , not X number if things. Re the EU wanting to protect “ one of there member nations”. I would think that of all the problems the UK had had with Ireland over the years. It is something we would want to do as-well. If we have a common concern, we should be able to find common ground. However one side ( the EU) say there not moving.
 
Tashyboy said:
Considering all the things that have been agreed on, re leaving the EU. It is one thing , not X number if things. Re the EU wanting to protect “ one of there member nations”. I would think that of all the problems the UK had had with Ireland over the years. It is something we would want to do as-well. If we have a common concern, we should be able to find common ground. However one side ( the EU) say there not moving.
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I agree that no one wants a hard border. The backstop was the agreed way of avoiding one between the EU and the UK after 2 odd years of negotiations. We have now said we want an alternative to the backstop but the EU it seems are not too chuffed as we have not said what it is.

I am pretty sure that if we came up with an alternative to the backstop with the odd detail here and there that is agreeable to both sides then the EU would accept it. But it seems that, as we stand, unless we come up with some concrete proposals instead of just vague rhetoric the EU are not impressed.
 
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Tashyboy said:
Considering all the things that have been agreed on, re leaving the EU. It is one thing , not X number if things. Re the EU wanting to protect “ one of there member nations”. I would think that of all the problems the UK had had with Ireland over the years. It is something we would want to do as-well. If we have a common concern, we should be able to find common ground. However one side ( the EU) say there not moving.
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The EU negotiators have the luxury of not having to expose themselves to re-election so can stone-wall and grandstand with impunity while playing with the incomes of the populations of Spain, Italy, Portugal Poland Greece etc.

In stereo-typical French style Barnier 'invented' the condition that a 'withdrawl' agreement and the £39bn had to be done and dusted before the possibility that he would entertain setting out to agree future trade etc. There was no need for this disconnect and that's directly driven the need (in the EU's eye) for a back-stop. No two companies would dream of splitting the current state of affairs and due diligence off from agreements on their future relationship.
 
drdel said:
The EU negotiators have the luxury of not having to expose themselves to re-election so can stone-wall and grandstand with impunity while playing with the incomes of the populations of Spain, Italy, Portugal Poland Greece etc.

In stereo-typical French style Barnier 'invented' the condition that a 'withdrawl' agreement and the £39bn had to be done and dusted before the possibility that he would entertain setting out to agree future trade etc. There was no need for this disconnect and that's directly driven the need (in the EU's eye) for a back-stop. No two companies would dream of splitting the current state of affairs and due diligence off from agreements on their future relationship.
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When will folk stop making the analogy between Countries (and the EU) and Companies? The relationships involved are completely different! Your first paragraph even indicates as much!
 
Foxholer said:
When will folk stop making the analogy between Countries (and the EU) and Companies? The relationships involved are completely different! Your first paragraph even indicates as much!
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Sorry to break your 'rules': I'll probably incur your wrath again so I'll apologise in advance to save time.

Relax - tis merely a comparison and my opinion. Just pointing out that most negotiations run sorting past liabilities and future strategies/plans in parallel - that's just my experience of EU major procurement projects, Government PFI's and global commercial mergers.
 
drdel said:
Sorry to break your 'rules': I'll probably incur your wrath again so I'll apologise in advance to save time.

Relax - tis merely a comparison and my opinion. Just pointing out that most negotiations run sorting past liabilities and future strategies/plans in parallel - that's just my experience of EU major procurement projects, Government PFI's and global commercial mergers.
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I agree. The situation we have with the backstop is related to Barnier's refusal to discuss future trading arrangements until the divorce payment and irish border have been agreed. We started off by saying nothing is agreed untill everything is agreed, for some reason we seem to abandon that premise.
 
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Tonight Barnier is saying that the backstop is "part and parcel" of the Brexit deal and will not be renegotiated. I'm not sure whether "part and parcel" is actually recognised as an expression in France or whether it has been loosely translated from what he actually said but if the EU sticks to that position then that must make No Deal much more likely.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47061650
 
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