Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[IanM]

May prattling on about a Scottish Border blissfully unaware that many Scots would be happy with a border if it meant we remained in the EU.

...but apparently not the majoity!

 

[Old Skier]

I see the noises miniority is in full swing again. The SNP, who not many years ago wanted to leave the EU now, due to RUK wanting to leave the U.K. want to remain in the EU even though they try to give the impression that they want to govern independently yet joining a federal state would ensure they will never be able to.

The party that lost the independence vote need to relook at their hate strategy.

 

[IanM]

Can hardly blame the EU. Hardly going to tear up two and a half years of negotiation, which was signed off by our PM (who also decided to spend a few months having an election in the midst of it) only for the PM to come back 60 days from B-day and say it's not what she wanted after all. What a state.

Of course not. But I blame the EU for embarking on Federalism with no mandate. But where you are spot on is our PM not committing to her role, so all the EU have to is say "non" and sit on their hands... they are skint with us and v.f. skint with us!

 

[SocketRocket]

Can hardly blame the EU. Hardly going to tear up two and a half years of negotiation, which was signed off by our PM (who also decided to spend a few months having an election in the midst of it) only for the PM to come back 60 days from B-day and say it's not what she wanted after all. What a state.

But that's not the way it works. The Draft withdraw agreement was signed off by the EU and UK negotiators but needed ratifying from both the 27 EU States and the UK Parliament. It has failed the latter so has never been accepted.

 

[Del_Boy]

Simplest solution. England to leave the UK. Other countries can then do what they want. Be independent but part of the EU (if the EU will have them without England) be independent in their own right or join England outside of the EU.

Sick a tired of the Scots banging on about we voted in the UK to stay in the EU. No - you voted to stay part of the UK and the UK then voted to leave the EU.

As for NI they need to decide if they want to be part of an ‘open’ Ireland or the UK. UK voted to leave which may mean a hard border - that is the reality of the situation deal with it.

Same with Eire do you want a unified Ireland or to be part of the EU? Currently you can’t have both

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Your country had a vote to try and achieve the first stage of your wishes and your country voted against your wishes - do you not respect those wishes ?

And the second part is irrelevant because the first part didn’t happen. And I also doubt that Scotland would be welcomed in the EU due to them being unable to be a Net contributor- would take out more than they put in

Once again I have to explain that one of the main drivers of the No campaign in Scotland was that an Independent Scotland would be thrown out of the EU. Can you please let that sink in.

I have no idea how many of the 60% plus voters that were pro EU were influenced by that.
I would imagine it was more than 5%. especially if as the 16-18 year olds could vote
That difference would probably have swung the vote in favour of Yes.

Once again can I say that EU have consistently said that an Independent Scotland would be welcomed.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

...but apparently not the majoity!

Do you have any proof of that ?
A recent poll says two to one are in favour of a fixed Border if it meant staying in the EU.

 

[IanM]

Doon you are priceless.

You voted on the losing side in two Referenda this century, that's a bit clumsy, but of course the majority didnt understand what they were voting for.

Scotland might or might not be admitted in its own right into the EU Federation, but I wonder how much the subs would be. Would the Scottish tax payer be prepared to pay more to join and help repay the massive black hole in the finances? How do you feel about handing over control of the budget? The SNP love to dish out stuff...as long as somone else picks up the tab. I wonde rif the EU would be prepared to do that?

 

[IanM]

Do you have any proof of that ?
A recent poll says two to one are in favour of a fixed Border if it meant staying in the EU.

That was not the point at issue

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Once again I have to explain that one of the main drivers of the No campaign in Scotland was that an Independent Scotland would be thrown out of the EU. Can you please let that sink in.

You had the vote - the result was to stay part of the UK , there were zero cavities to it - you had a referendum and the result was clear , and it seems there is no desire from the majority to have a second one despite what the SNP think

I have no idea how many of the 60% plus voters that were pro EU were influenced by that.
I would imagine it was more than 5%. especially if as the 16-18 year olds could vote
That difference would probably have swung the vote in favour of Yes.

Once again can I say that EU have consistently said that an Independent Scotland would be welcomed.

And the Scotland would become part of the Euro zone and would have to find some way to become a net contributor to the EU - Scotland want to become independent from the government of the UK to then become controlled financially and politically by the EU.

Right now Scotland make a budget deficit each year - can you explain how that will change under the EU banner

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Doon you are priceless.

You voted on the losing side in two Referenda this century, that's a bit clumsy, but of course the majority didnt understand what they were voting for.

Scotland might or might not be admitted in its own right into the EU Federation, but I wonder how much the subs would be. Would the Scottish tax payer be prepared to pay more to join and help repay the massive black hole in the finances? How do you feel about handing over control of the budget? The SNP love to dish out stuff...as long as somone else picks up the tab. I wonde rif the EU would be prepared to do that?

Glass Houses...Bricks....throwing,

 

[User62651]

Simplest solution. England to leave the UK. Other countries can then do what they want. Be independent but part of the EU (if the EU will have them without England) be independent in their own right or join England outside of the EU.

Sick a tired of the Scots banging on about we voted in the UK to stay in the EU. No - you voted to stay part of the UK and the UK then voted to leave the EU.

As for NI they need to decide if they want to be part of an ‘open’ Ireland or the UK. UK voted to leave which may mean a hard border - that is the reality of the situation deal with it.

Same with Eire do you want a unified Ireland or to be part of the EU? Currently you can’t have both

Factual and agreeable words but probably not really achievable for England to leave the UK although a referendum in England might prove otherwise. For a start the Conservative and Unionist party who it seems will always win in England (if not the UK) would never contemplate it. Labour always needs Scottish and Welsh votes.
In terms of defence strategically the sea lochs of west Scotland and easy access to the North Atlantic are important to the UK Navy and RAF.
Think Scotland would have to do the leaving bit and there will likely be a push for that again soon, no idea how close it would be currently. Ties that bonded people in the past - WWII, Monarchy and other things aren't as strong as they were I dont think.
UK is feeling quite strained these days and nationalism is on the rise in England, Scotland and Wales, NI is very much either pro UK or pro Eire as we know, almost taboo to talk about politics there, too sensitive.
I guess you want out of UK as well as the EU? Strong anti-Scottish sentiment, you could have said SNP instead of The Scots, most Scots wanted to stay in UK as you said, at the last census anyway.
Maybe you'll get your wish.
What comes after that, more division? - a north south divide in England, the republic of Yorkshire, a celtic province in Cornwall?

 

[User62651]

You had the vote - the result was to stay part of the UK , there were zero cavities to it - you had a referendum and the result was clear , and it seems there is no desire from the majority to have a second one despite what the SNP think



And the Scotland would become part of the Euro zone and would have to find some way to become a net contributor to the EU - Scotland want to become independent from the government of the UK to then become controlled financially and politically by the EU.

Right now Scotland make a budget deficit each year - can you explain how that will change under the EU banner

Sorry Phil, that typo made me laugh, caveats I think you meant?

 

[lobthewedge]

Do you have any proof of that ?
A recent poll says two to one are in favour of a fixed Border if it meant staying in the EU.

Who exactly did they poll to come up with this pish?

 

[lobthewedge]

So you support the behaviour of a mob to deny free speech in the UK Parliament.

I seem to remember the police having to remove ardent YES campaigners from outside my polling station during the independence referendum, so excuse me for not taking this post seriously......

What was that you said about people in glass houses?

 

[Del_Boy]

In the referendum I actually voted to remain but now with what is on the table would take no deal

 

[Doon frae Troon]

You had the vote - the result was to stay part of the UK , there were zero cavities to it - you had a referendum and the result was clear , and it seems there is no desire from the majority to have a second one despite what the SNP think



And the Scotland would become part of the Euro zone and would have to find some way to become a net contributor to the EU - Scotland want to become independent from the government of the UK to then become controlled financially and politically by the EU.

Right now Scotland make a budget deficit each year - can you explain how that will change under the EU banner

Deficit is only because of UK accounting mechanism.
We also have huge debt responsibilities forced upon us by successive UK governments.

Funny how nobody talks about GERS nowadays I remember when that was used non stop to 'frighten' Scotland.
Strange that there was never a GREE, wonder why that was.

We will be just fine, especially once all the EU companies move their UK bases to Scotland.
We will probably follow the examples of Norway, Denmark, Ireland etc they seem to be doing very well as part of the EU.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

That was not the point at issue

Aye right.

 

[Hobbit]

Who exactly did they poll to come up with this pish?

Latest poll shows 51% NO 45% yes.

Deficit is only because of UK accounting mechanism.
We also have huge debt responsibilities forced upon us by successive UK governments.

Funny how nobody talks about GERS nowadays I remember when that was used non stop to 'frighten' Scotland.
Strange that there was never a GREE, wonder why that was.

We will be just fine, especially once all the EU companies move their UK bases to Scotland.
We will probably follow the examples of Norway, Denmark, Ireland etc they seem to be doing very well as part of the EU.

Latest GERS report. Scottish revenue. £59m, including North Sea oil rev. Expenditure £68m. Still operating a worse GDP deficit than Greece.

"Huge debt responsibilities" just as all of the UK shares debt responsibilities.

As for you wanting to leave, I wish you 'kin would.

 

[Tashyboy]

Fortunately. Have not visited this roundabout thread for a bit.
But just to recap.
Theresa May and the EU agreed to a deal that the EU leaders voted on and accepted in 20 mins.
Theresa May and the EU deal was overwhelmingly rejected in the HOP.
Now a new deal has been agreed in the HOP.
TM is going back to the EU to ask for a small change to the deal.
The EU said there will be no change to the original deal, one in which TM agreed to.

Hmmm. Can anyone else see no deal on the horizon getting bigger.