Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

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JamesR said:
Are you suggesting that they are all so useless she didn't trust them to do it themselves, and had to step in and deal with it for them?
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No. I am suggesting that she didn’t like what they wanted to negotiate ie Brexit, because as a remainer she doesn’t believe in it. So whilst appearing to set up the Dept for Exiting the EU she also set up the Europe Department in No.10 made up of civil servants who shared her views. They negotiated behind the back of the Dept for Exiting the EU. The result was her fudge of a deal that meant we officially left but were still tied in. Things like “nothing is agreed until everything is agreed” and “no deal is better than a bad deal” and indeed the specifics of her entire Lancaster House speech were conveniently forgotten.
Two Brexit ministers resigned over all this. This is not speculation. It’s common knowledge.
 
Sweep said:
No. I am suggesting that she didn’t like what they wanted to negotiate ie Brexit, because as a remainer she doesn’t believe in it. So whilst appearing to set up the Dept for Exiting the EU she also set up the Europe Department in No.10 made up of civil servants who shared her views. They negotiated behind the back of the Dept for Exiting the EU. The result was her fudge of a deal that meant we officially left but were still tied in. Things like “nothing is agreed until everything is agreed” and “no deal is better than a bad deal” and indeed the specifics of her entire Lancaster House speech were conveniently forgotten.
Two Brexit ministers resigned over all this. This is not speculation. It’s common knowledge.
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What a load of conspiratorial theory twaddle!
 
maxfli65 said:
If Leave want to win hearts and minds and take on board HMs words about 'finding the middle ground' they need to stop giving a media platform to this guy Mark Francois -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-po...ancois-accuses-airbus-boss-of-german-bullying

Make your political point but the last bit...really?:cry:
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Couldn't agree more, the man is all that is wrong with many who are elected, but on the reverse, remainers should finally accept the referendum result and agree to the UK leaving the EU whether it happens to be on a deal or not. If the politicians can't reach an agreement in parliament we should just leave.
 
JamesR said:
You mean, you were there!?!
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Don’t be silly. Taking the mickey does not mean you are right.
I mean it was widely reported in the media and in the resignation letters and subsequent interviews from the ministers themselves.
TBH, I am not sure how you missed this. May I suggest you read up on stuff before trying to debate something you seem to know nothing about?
 
Sweep said:
Don’t be silly. Taking the mickey does not mean you are right.
I mean it was widely reported in the media and in the resignation letters and subsequent interviews from the ministers themselves.
TBH, I am not sure how you missed this. May I suggest you read up on stuff before trying to debate something you seem to know nothing about?
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I’ve read it, I’ve seen and heard them.
I don’t feel either was capable of the job they were given.
Whether May undermined them or not, I doubt either could have come up with anything & seriously don’t believe Davies wanted too.
 
 
JamesR said:
I’ve read it, I’ve seen and heard them.
I don’t feel either was capable of the job they were given.
Whether May undermined them or not, I doubt either could have come up with anything & seriously don’t believe Davies wanted too.
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I guess we will never know if they were capable. May undermining them prevented them from doing their job.
Who would you have given the job to?
 
I honestly don’t think anyone I say would be classed as acceptable because they would probably be a remainer. Largely because I don’t believe anyone amongst the leavers in the cabinet is capable.
Perhaps only Gove amongst them could have done it!
 
JamesR said:
I honestly don’t think anyone I say would be classed as acceptable because they would probably be a remainer. Largely because I don’t believe anyone amongst the leavers in the cabinet is capable.
Perhaps only Gove amongst them could have done it!
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But Gove was toxic at the time and has only just regained favour because of a good speech in the Commons.
I guess that’s the problem. How can anyone negotiate for something they don’t want and feels will be ultimately damaging?
Brexit is such a big issue, I believe it was a mistake for the Tories to elect a remainer as leader at least until leaving was concluded. Though most of the parliamentary party is remain, it is at odds with the electorate and their supporters. They should have had the courage to elect a leaver to get this done. They had a remain leader resign and replaced him with a remain leader. The result of their mistake is this halfway house mess where no-one in Parliament can agree and a very possible hemorrhaging of support for their party across the country.
 
Of course if it’s hard to find a capable Brexiteer to take the job of negotiations how the hell do you find one who could be PM?
...and please don’t suggest that disaster that is Boris Johnson!
 
Old Skier said:
Couldn't agree more, the man is all that is wrong with many who are elected, but on the reverse, remainers should finally accept the referendum result and agree to the UK leaving the EU whether it happens to be on a deal or not. If the politicians can't reach an agreement in parliament we should just leave.
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The 'Politicians' have had at least 4 bites at it....

1. They voted and agreed to hold a referendum.

2. They agreed to implement the result.

3. They discussed and voted to activate Article 50.

4. They held a GE.
 
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