Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[bluewolf]

I'd say thats an "extreme" way of looking at it, but dumbed down yes. To be honest your message of "Like a petulant child, throwing a tantrum because they haven't got their own way" sums up remainers over the past 2.5 years.

It's just some healthy competition with opposing ideas giving people options.

It's extreme because it's theoretical. I have absolutely no idea what the Brexit Party's manifesto would be. I have absolutely zero respect for Nigel though so I'd have to assume it wasn't aimed at me.

And whilst I can see a vague correlation between my analogy and the Remain protests, they have very little in common. Internal, peaceful protests by the People are quite different to purposeful frustration of the Democratic process of a Political entity.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Wouldn't it be considered libellous to suggest that someone has been having sex with, and has fathered children with, his sister without solid evidence?

Oh, it's his sister. I just assumed it was his wife. In which case most of the joke does not quite work. Let me rework it for a minute as I am in no way suggesting he is having any sexual relationships with his sister. No way indeed.

How about 'Good old Nigels always raging against the elite so good to see he's walking the walk. Has she really thought this through as it could cause a split in the Rees-Mogg household when his kids Off Shore Account, Trust Fund and Caviar on Toast are old enough to send their nanny to vote for theme. As they will be forced to decide between auntie and daddy. Like some nasty family feud but with posh people with absolute shed loads of cash playing ideological games with the lives of many people who are struggling to survive instead?' '

 

[SocketRocket]

I think they will get a lot of support and will produce policies beyond Brexit, probably around political reform. I wish them well, we need some change. I do wonder about people when they make comparisons with Edl, that's a bit of an over reaction to say the least.

 

[bluewolf]

I think they will get a lot of support and will produce policies beyond Brexit, probably around political reform. I wish them well, we need some change.

Whilst I respect your opinion, I genuinely don't think that this Party represents the change that we need. Farage polarises opinion too much. The backers (those that we know) have a sketchy history at best. They're a leap too far to the Right and their economic policies will be so far right that even Thatcher wouldn't have gone there.
I'd be willing to bet that they form a cozy partnership with the TPA. I've no doubt that they have the same associations.

 

[Hobbit]

So, if the Brexit Party can field 3 or 4 candidates on a manifesto of causing maximum disruption and frustration within the EU, would people be happy with that?

Is that how we want to be seen on the International Stage? Like a petulant child, throwing a tantrum because they haven't got their own way.

I find it a little perverse that people decry the loss of a strong opposition party in the House of Commons but also decry the prospect of a party questioning the dominance of the EU federalists.... just seems...odd. A bit Animal Farm-ish? Everyone is equal but some are more equal than others...

 

[bluewolf]

I find it a little perverse that people decry the loss of a strong opposition party in the House of Commons but also decry the prospect of a party questioning the dominance of the EU federalists.... just seems...odd. A bit Animal Farm-ish? Everyone is equal but some are more equal than others...

Who's doing that? I genuinely don't get the point you're making?

 

[Deleted member 18121]

I think they will get a lot of support and will produce policies beyond Brexit, probably around political reform. I wish them well, we need some change. I do wonder about people when they make comparisons with Edl, that's a bit of an over reaction to say the least.

Agree with you there, the party launched only a couple of hours ago and here we are on this thread with people making massive assumptions and accusations based on absolutely no fact at all. I'm not sure what there is to be scared of, more choice and more competition are a good thing.

 

[bluewolf]

Agree with you there, the party launched only a couple of hours ago and here we are on this thread with people making massive assumptions and accusations based on absolutely no fact at all. I'm not sure what there is to be scared of, more choice and more competition are a good thing.

It was founded in January.

 

[User62651]

Agree with you there, the party launched only a couple of hours ago and here we are on this thread with people making massive assumptions and accusations based on absolutely no fact at all. I'm not sure what there is to be scared of, more choice and more competition are a good thing.

Only raised it as Farage himself said The Breixt Party politics were the same as UKIPs, only the personnel were better ie. former business leaders etc rather than nutjobs.

 

[Hobbit]

Who's doing that? I genuinely don't get the point you're making?

Your inference is the Brexit Party would make the UK look like a petulant child. As much as I don't like what Farage et al stand for I do like the fact that there is a group in the EU Parliament that does ruffle feathers. But lets look beyond the Uk's disruptive party in the EU. There's quite a few parties from various countries being just as disruptive.

 

[Deleted member 18121]

Only raised it as Farage himself said The Breixt Party politics were the same as UKIPs, only the personnel were better ie. former business leaders etc rather than nutjobs.

I glanced through the highlights of the opening this morning, the 4 candidates spoke well but probably (for me) only 1 stood out as someone I'd be interested to look into straight away - a guy call Ben Habib.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the new party evolve and what they bring to the table.

 

[SocketRocket]

Oh, it's his sister. I just assumed it was his wife. In which case most of the joke does not quite work. Let me rework it for a minute as I am in no way suggesting he is having any sexual relationships with his sister. No way indeed.

How about 'Good old Nigels always raging against the elite so good to see he's walking the walk. Has she really thought this through as it could cause a split in the Rees-Mogg household when his kids Off Shore Account, Trust Fund and Caviar on Toast are old enough to send their nanny to vote for theme. As they will be forced to decide between auntie and daddy. Like some nasty family feud but with posh people with absolute shed loads of cash playing ideological games with the lives of many people who are struggling to survive instead?' '

So after a character assassination of someone you know nothing about do you feel better. Just relax she's just someone who wants to get into politics, why should you be concerned or should there be some kind of restricting criteria for people from well off families.

 

[bluewolf]

Your inference is the Brexit Party would make the UK look like a petulant child. As much as I don't like what Farage et al stand for I do like the fact that there is a group in the EU Parliament that does ruffle feathers. But lets look beyond the Uk's disruptive party in the EU. There's quite a few parties from various countries being just as disruptive.

No, my point was that if they stood on a manifesto of causing disruption and frustrating the political process then that would be acting like a petulant child. This was based on comments made by the likes of JRM and Mark Francois. I have absolutely no idea what their manifesto will be. It was a theoretical question.

They could integrate into the process, attend meetings, vote on motions etc. All whilst making every effort to educate the British population about the best future for the UK. Who knows? 🤷‍♂️

 

[Hacker Khan]

I think they will get a lot of support and will produce policies beyond Brexit, probably around political reform. I wish them well, we need some change. I do wonder about people when they make comparisons with Edl, that's a bit of an over reaction to say the least.

The comparison was with what UKIP are morphing into, not Farages party. Farage is on record several times as saying that UKIP was being infiltrated by EDL/BNP people and whilst I disagree with just about everything Farage stands for, I don't believe he is a ENL/BNP racist and he does want to separate himself from them. Doing that in the minds of the electorate may be more challenging.

 

[SocketRocket]

Whilst I respect your opinion, I genuinely don't think that this Party represents the change that we need. Farage polarises opinion too much. The backers (those that we know) have a sketchy history at best. They're a leap too far to the Right and their economic policies will be so far right that even Thatcher wouldn't have gone there.
I'd be willing to bet that they form a cozy partnership with the TPA. I've no doubt that they have the same associations.

Don't you mean they don't represent the change you need. I have been disgusted with the way parliament has behaved recently and would welcome some constitutional change.

 

[bluewolf]

Don't you mean they don't represent the change you need. I have been disgusted with the way parliament has behaved recently and would welcome some constitutional change.

Subtle distinction I suppose, but in my opinion they don't represent the change the country needs. I'm fortunate enough to earn well, have significant (enough) assets, have skills and experience enough to never be out of work. My concern is for those less fortunate. I believe that a step towards total free market economics will disadvantage the less fortunate, whilst providing significant advantage to the already fortunate.

 

[SocketRocket]

Subtle distinction I suppose, but in my opinion they don't represent the change the country needs. I'm fortunate enough to earn well, have significant (enough) assets, have skills and experience enough to never be out of work. My concern is for those less fortunate. I believe that a step towards total free market economics will disadvantage the less fortunate, whilst providing significant advantage to the already fortunate.

Do you know what their policies are or are you assuming they support a total free market economy.

 

[SocketRocket]

The comparison was with what UKIP are morphing into, not Farages party. Farage is on record several times as saying that UKIP was being infiltrated by EDL/BNP people and whilst I disagree with just about everything Farage stands for, I don't believe he is a ENL/BNP racist and he does want to separate himself from them. Doing that in the minds of the electorate may be more challenging.

I don't know why Farage gets labled a racist. Although that tends to be a call from the socialist elite against anyone who supports a controlled immigration policy.

 

[bluewolf]

Do you know what their policies are or are you assuming they support a total free market economy.

It's a great question. I'm making an educated guess, based on the rhetoric used by those linked to the Brexit Party. All the way back to January when Blaiklock was in charge (before having to resign) and McGough was the Treasurer (before having to resign). It'll be interesting to see which way they gravitate as there's no doubt that they'll gain seats quite quickly.

 

[MegaSteve]

UKIP are finished... Heard/read they couldn't even raise sufficient candidates, for the forthcoming council elections, in an area where they've previously been in charge...