Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Blue in Munich]

Yes 'one of the easiest in human history'
How's that working out ?

The bunker shot should be the easiest shot in golf; put an incompetent on the other end of the club, or have someone interfering with your stance and it becomes difficult, if not impossible. Sound familiar?

 

[Crazyface]

So why are so many screaming for a no deal? We were never voting for that!

Becuase we never voted FOR a deal either. It was a simple in or out. If we'd voted to remain would we have had 3 years of asking a question..But how do we want to Remain?

 

[Crazyface]

Yes 'one of the easiest in human history'
How's that working out ?

It's only because the idiot MP's went to negotiate. See how that's working out.

 

[Crazyface]

And why is it all negative about trade? Jesus H, most of our companies are owned by the rest of Europe so any delay in product at the ports would hit their production and therefore profits. So that's just not going to happen is it. Think about it.

 

[Mudball]

And why is it all negative about trade? Jesus H, most of our companies are owned by the rest of Europe so any delay in product at the ports would hit their production and therefore profits. So that's just not going to happen is it. Think about it.

Good one.. this is similar to the argument that BoJo and Gove made before the referendum about the Germans will be dying for a deal because they need to sell us cars.. but haven’t seen the Germans or their car makers capitulate yet..


In other news.. Got to love the Tory trash talk (and trashing the country in the process)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1113000006330585088

 

[drdel]

While its a little interesting to discuss a Customs Union type arrangement and other indicative votes, its just navel gazing. These and and similar possibilities that appeal to Soft brexiteers and Labour are all 'LEAVE' options and the only way to reach these future discussions is to First have a signed Withdrawl Agreement! So the only real 3 choices are Remain, Leave or complete a Withdrawl Agreement and since the only WA on the table is (IMO) rubbish (and the EU say they won't re-open that) then I think there's only two moves possible; stay or go.

 

[User62651]

It's only because the idiot MP's went to negotiate. See how that's working out.

So who should have gone to negotiate? Some non-idiot MPs? You've had Davis and Raab and Barclay, all leavers, fronting it then in turn Davis and Raab giving up because they didn't want their personal political ambitions thwarted by association with a failure of negotiation. Just carp from the sidelines instead. Gove was offered it too but preferred to hide away at Environment, self protection. After his role in Leave he should have been jumping at it. Instead he's towing the line backing the PMs duff deal.

I'm sure there was a pretty bright capable team of civil servants doing the donkey work in the negotiations anyway and they came up with the best they could after May's red lines were exposed as fantasy.

 

[Foxholer]

I work in that sector and I'm sorry to say it's largely being over dramatized. Our London office workers would become employees of our luxembourg or swiss offices and then simply work in a "branch" located in London. It's what all the companies are doing and although administratively intensive it's really a non issue.

Makes a lot of sense - at least for some institutions, that are 'based' outside UK already. The overall value to 'UK Ltd' may not change for those institutions, but could well do, dramatically, for others (for Banks, the likes of Barclays, RBS, Lloyds etc for example?) depending on where profits are reported/tax is paid!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Becuase we never voted FOR a deal either. It was a simple in or out. If we'd voted to remain would we have had 3 years of asking a question..But how do we want to Remain?

YES YOU DID! That’s the point, both sides made promises, Remain promised reform, Leave promised a deal that would be best for us.

 

[jp5]

So who should have gone to negotiate? Some non-idiot MPs? You've had Davis and Raab and Barclay, all leavers, fronting it then in turn Davis and Raab giving up because they didn't want their personal political ambitions thwarted by association with a failure of negotiation. Just carp from the sidelines instead. Gove was offered it too but preferred to hide away at Environment, self protection. After his role in Leave he should have been jumping at it. Instead he's towing the line backing the PMs duff deal.

I'm sure there was a pretty bright capable team of civil servants doing the donkey work in the negotiations anyway and they came up with the best they could after May's red lines were exposed as fantasy.

Nail on the head. All the politicians that promised the easiest deal in history have seemed rather reluctant to actually deliver it.

 

[Tashyboy]

Because it’s not what anyone wanted, we were promised a deal by the leave campaign.

For the first time, I never knew the leave campaign promised a deal. But with all the crap going off, am not sure how they could of got one. To simplify things. It now seems that the political party's are voting on proposals that have not been accepted by the EU. Any proposal that hypothetically could get voted through could well be knocked back by the EU.

 

[GB72]

Honest question here as I have missed this point. Can someone tell me what the DUP actually want. They do not want the May deal, they do not want any of the options that have been put forward for votes and have voted against everything. Do they want no deal, no brexit, I honestly cannot recall reading what they do want, only what they do not want.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

That’s were I’ve moved to, initially I wanted to leave with a decent deal, some give, some take.
The deal on offer is a bad deal, our idiots in Parliament are scrambling about trying to move forward and the EU are offering nothing to help.
My only concern is how long the pain and at what cost to the poorest in our society.

Agree, saw this the other day and it seemed to make sense.

The problem with the UK is that the folk earning £500+ an hour seem to have convinced the folk earning £25 an hour that all our problems are caused by those earning £9.80 an hour.

 

[Tashyboy]

Maybe many who voted Remain would change to leave. I cant see that anyone could be certain on the result of another referendum. One thing is certain , it would deepen divisions in the country.

Plus if leaving without a deal knocks the country back a year or two, am not sure another referendum or general election in the short term is gonna help either.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Honest question here as I have missed this point. Can someone tell me what the DUP actually want. They do not want the May deal, they do not want any of the options that have been put forward for votes and have voted against everything. Do they want no deal, no brexit, I honestly cannot recall reading what they do want, only what they do not want.

To extend their moment in the spotlight as the Tories rely on them (in most cases)? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46903876

 

[Hacker Khan]

Plus if leaving without a deal knocks the country back a year or two, am not sure another referendum or general election in the short term is gonna help either.

Do you really want the current shower negotiating our future in these critical times?

 

[GB72]

To extend their moment in the spotlight as the Tories rely on them (in most cases)? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46903876

THanks for that. On the basis that it wants NI treated the same as the rest of the UK in any deal, surely anything that suggests a customs union or similar for the whole of the UK should fit the bill. Should I read in to that that it wants a hard border to further distance the UK from the remainder of Ireland or is that too simplified.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Agree, saw this the other day and it seemed to make sense.

The problem with the UK is that the folk earning £500+ an hour seem to have convinced the folk earning £25 an hour that all our problems are caused by those earning £9.80 an hour.

At least reference your sources

https://twitter.com/x/status/1052472392545579008

 

[Tashyboy]

While its a little interesting to discuss a Customs Union type arrangement and other indicative votes, its just navel gazing. These and and similar possibilities that appeal to Soft brexiteers and Labour are all 'LEAVE' options and the only way to reach these future discussions is to First have a signed Withdrawl Agreement! So the only real 3 choices are Remain, Leave or complete a Withdrawl Agreement and since the only WA on the table is (IMO) rubbish (and the EU say they won't re-open that) then I think there's only two moves possible; stay or go.

This 👍👍 I have been saying for months and months The deal offered is crap. The EU had a chance ( when May went back) to soften the blow to the Irish backstop and they refused. Instead of the EU sitting round a table, you have a dictator also known as chief negotiator Barnier saying " this deal is not changing". Instead of the EU countries democratically discussing what will be offered, one person Barnier has played hardball. It is a decision that someone took and has helped neither side. When all this is finished his name will be mud.

 

[Hacker Khan]

THanks for that. On the basis that it wants NI treated the same as the rest of the UK in any deal, surely anything that suggests a customs union or similar for the whole of the UK should fit the bill. Should I read in to that that it wants a hard border to further distance the UK from the remainder of Ireland or is that too simplified.

Doubt it as they know where that will end up and I suspect even they are not stupid enough to want a return to the old days. But then again in the Brexit process I think most people have forgot what they do want.