Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Hacker Khan]

How many of Cameron's 'swivel eyed loons' will vote to support a No Deal Brexit tonight?
I would be surprised if it is more than 30.
Says it all really.

I would expect more than that. There will be some who think a hard Brexit is great and will vote that way and there will be some that do not really want a hard Brexit but feel that it is the only way, with 16 days to go, of complying with the referendum result in 2016.

 

[Beezerk]

There is not a majority in parliament for a second referendum of any type at the moment.

I hope you’re wrong but with this crop they will vote for whatever gets or keeps them in power. Corbyn will vote for Ref2 if it gets him a bed in number 10.

 

[Foxholer]

As I've said before I don't think anyone wants a pure rerun of the 2016 one with 'Stay or leave' being the only 2 options. As many have said that is kind of pointless. So 'leave' would probably not be a choice but the choices would be the whatever options are available. Something like leave with no withdrawal agreement, leave with whatever the final deal on offer from the EU may be etc etc. Just having 'leave' on the ballot paper without any kind of explanation of in reality how it would be done and what the basic implications would be kind of got us into all this trouble in the first place.

If that's the case, then there's still no point having a referendum imo. The whole proposal for a 2nd referendum was a concoction (bu Remainers) within Parliament in order to get a 'different' (ie. 'Remain') result!

Imo, it's up to Government, through Parliament, not the Public via a further referendum, to enact the original referendum's decision. So Parliament needs to sort itself out. I'm not overly worried about the possibility of a No Deal result - as 'deals' would pretty quickly be made. The extension of tariff free goods just announced is an example. A General Election would not change (and certainly would not 'solve') anything imo. That idea is simply a ploy by Labour!

 

[Taz]

Labours position made clear

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Really got to admire the deflection on to Labour’s position or the what Labour would do to get in to power etc, etc, blah, blah, blah.

We are in this mess because of the Tory Party and they have done everything people accuse Labour of doing to stay in power.

And when that argument fails, let’s use the Comrade Corbyn and the Abbott can’t count cards.

Time for people to recognise who’s got us in this mess and make them solely responsible.

 

[Mudball]

If that's the case, then there's still no point having a referendum imo. The whole proposal for a 2nd referendum was a concoction (bu Remainers) within Parliament in order to get a 'different' (ie. 'Remain') result!

Imo, it's up to Government, through Parliament, not the Public via a further referendum, to enact the original referendum's decision. So Parliament needs to sort itself out. I'm not overly worried about the possibility of a No Deal result - as 'deals' would pretty quickly be made. The extension of tariff free goods just announced is an example. A General Election would not change (and certainly would not 'solve') anything imo. That idea is simply a ploy by Labour!

Really... Two and a bit years of omnishambles and we have done deals with somthing like countries that you can count on your hands. Also, given our position, we may not get to choose if chlorinated meat is in or not. We were told the EU deal will be the 'easiest in history' - that statement has disappeared like the 350m bus.

I am sure trade deals but but not by this lot. I would not send TMay to negotiate a sofa at DFS

 

[User62651]

Really got to admire the deflection on to Labour’s position or the what Labour would do to get in to power etc, etc, blah, blah, blah.

We are in this mess because of the Tory Party and they have done everything people accuse Labour of doing to stay in power.

And when that argument fails, let’s use the Comrade Corbyn and the Abbott can’t count cards.

Time for people to recognise who’s got us in this mess and make them solely responsible.

Agreed, May gambled away her majority on a needless 2017 election and then 'bought' the DUP's backing for a £billion....except the DUP rebelled on her anyway. Not a great confidence and supply partner there. Plus she cant get many of her own MPs to back her.
Could be 7 options up for grabs according to BBC analysis if the commons votes today and tomorrow go as expected, only 2 of which bring this to a swift conclusion -

 

[Old Skier]

Hesiltine, you know that old geezer who once was an MP and failed to unseat a sitting PM, wants another referendum because most of those that voted leave are now dead and the remainder haven't got a clue about what they voted for. The man is 89, how old does he think these geriatrics were.

 

[Foxholer]

Really got to admire the deflection on to Labour’s position or the what Labour would do to get in to power etc, etc, blah, blah, blah.

We are in this mess because of the Tory Party and they have done everything people accuse Labour of doing to stay in power.

And when that argument fails, let’s use the Comrade Corbyn and the Abbott can’t count cards.

Time for people to recognise who’s got us in this mess and make them solely responsible.

Labour would have been just as bad!

Same logic applies to what happened with/to Labour in the 2008 Financial crisis. Whoever was in charge is deemed to be responsible, so gets the blame, even when 'the other side' would have been just as ineffective!

 

[ColchesterFC]

The thing that struck me most about this whole shambles was May's last minute efforts to get support for her deal with the "if you don't vote for this deal there might be No Deal, a second referendum or no Brexit" speech. It's a bit like making a turd sandwich for their tea and then telling your kids if they don't eat it they won't be getting any tea. Thanks Theresa but I think I'll pass on your turd sandwich of a deal.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Labour would have been just as bad!

Same logic applies to what happened with/to Labour in the 2008 Financial crisis. Whoever was in charge is deemed to be responsible, so gets the blame, even when 'the other side' would have been just as ineffective!

No it doesn’t, only 1 Party has had total control over Brexit, to compare it to what happened in the past is irrelevant and a smoke screen.

You are guessing based your opinion of Labour that they would of been just as bad, you could be 100% right or 100% wrong.

The only fact though is, the tory party were totally in control.

 

[Scoobiesnax]

No it doesn’t, only 1 Party has had total control over Brexit, to compare it to what happened in the past is irrelevant and a smoke screen.

You are guessing based your opinion of Labour that they would of been just as bad, you could be 100% right or 100% wrong.

The only fact though is, the tory party were totally in control.

I think you'll probably find it was May and her sidekick Olly Robbins who had total control of Brexit or she wouldn't have had all the resignations she had from her Cabinet!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I think you'll probably find it was May and her sidekick Olly Robbins who had total control of Brexit or she wouldn't have had all the resignations she had from her Cabinet!

So were in agreement then, the tory party.

 

[jp5]

I think you'll probably find it was May and her sidekick Olly Robbins who had total control of Brexit or she wouldn't have had all the resignations she had from her Cabinet!

Resignations were just an attempt to save face. When they realised they couldn't deliver what they'd promised to the people, Davis and Raab make a quick exit.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Resignations were just an attempt to save face. When they realised they couldn't deliver what they'd promised to the people, Davis and Raab make a quick exit.

Couldn't deliver or weren't being allowed to try to deliver what they'd promised?

 

[Hacker Khan]

I think you'll probably find it was May and her sidekick Olly Robbins who had total control of Brexit or she wouldn't have had all the resignations she had from her Cabinet!

I think you'l probably find no one had total control of Brexit. As the past few days/weeks/months have demonstrated.

 

[Sweep]

Yes we can “walk out” but we won’t be out of the eu on the 29th March.. we won’t have cut all ties and be done even if we walked out there would be months of sorting out before we were “out”

We can leave the EU on March 29 and the current position is that we will. I am not aware anyone said all ties would be cut on March 29, hence the implementation period.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

We can leave the EU on March 29 and the current position is that we will. I am not aware anyone said all ties would be cut on March 29, hence the implementation period.

There are a lot of people out there who think we can just leave , all ties cut.
These people think that everything is so simple and just stick 2 fingers up to the eu

To think an important decision was left in hands of people who think that

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Another election ? Aren’t we sick of them and what’s going to change , the government won’t change

Did she not recently win one and also a leadership contest and also a vote of confidence?

Is it really down to one person ? Is she the only person doing the negotiations

Why has no one else stepped up then if it’s all down to May - who is going to step in and do a better job.

The govt might change, that is how elections work. TM also guaranteed that she would not stand as leader in another election so a different leader would be in charge for the Conservatives, different outlook, views etc.

She won an election 2yrs ago, reduced majority, but now can not get legislation through. In that situation you run another election, it is standard practice. She won a vote of confidence, despite her party having no confidence in her, because her MP's are frightened of losing their seats. Self interest took over.

TM is dominating the negotiations, notice the number of resignations from her cabinet including 2 Brexit ministers. She did not take her ministers with her, in particular those tasked with getting Brexit dealt with.

I think there are a number of people who would want to step up but history shows the first person to put the knife in rarely wins so people are standing back and waiting for her to go. Whether they are better, who knows, but I don't see that they can be worse. She really has done nothing of note since becoming PM and she has utterly failed in her one key job.

 

[IanM]

There are a lot of people out there who think we can just leave , all ties cut.
These people think that everything is so simple and just stick 2 fingers up to the eu

To think an important decision was left in hands of people who think that

Yet a major part of the Remain Arguement was that Leave were lying when they claimed Brussels had taken over control of the UK by stealth!