Breaking the rules makes you a cheat?

[USER1999]

So, are all rule breakers cheats?

What about ones who don't benefit? Not swapping cards for instance is a breach of rules but carries no advantage. Cheat? I think not.

But, what about the guy in the medal who moves one of several sticks touching the ball. It moves, into a worse lie than before. Yes, it's a penalty, but did he gain from it? Would you ping him?

Clearly playing stroke play and match play is against the rules, but cheating?

Carrying 15 clubs, but only using 7?

Holding the pin whilst putting out?

 

[BTatHome]

Surely someone that knowingly break a rule and does not apply the penalty is a cheat.

Simply breaking a rule does not imply cheat, only the resulting actions can determine if you cheat.

 

[chris661]

Holding the pin whilst putting out?

Is that not ok as long as it isn't touching the ground?

I reckon ignorance is a reason here. Realistically no one can know every rule and if you fall foul then there are consequences but unless you knowingly break a rule I dont think it is chreating.

 

[pbrown7582]

There is a grey area where breaking rules is just that rather than cheating.

 

[MadAdey]

There is a grey area where breaking rules is just that rather than cheating.

Is that not the same thing though? If you are breaking the rules knowingly then you are a cheat.

 

[BTatHome]

So, are all rule breakers cheats?

Holding the pin whilst putting out?

not a rule being broken here ....

Is that not ok as long as it isn't touching the ground?

nope, touching the ground is fine.

The only rule you can break by holding the flag is letting your ball hit the flag (Well that's you own fault, your an idiot if you do that) .... Or steadying yourself using the flag whilst putting.

 

[Fader]

A cheat is someone that knowingly breaks a rule or plays outside of the rules to gain an advantage.

Someone that breaks a rule unknowingly and is penalised cannot be classed as a cheat.

We've all played with cheats and we've all broken rules of golf at ssome point but as long as your honest about it and take the resulting penalty you can hold your head high as an honest person, unlike the guys that wait till your backs turned and improve a lie or claim to have taken less shots. They and we all know who they our at our clubs.

 

[duncan mackie]

the difference is actually really simple if you think about it -

there are penalties for breaking rules - in the case of the OP these would include 2 strokes for not replacing the ball in the first example, rather than 1 stroke if the ball was replaced, because there was no advantage gained. If a significant advantage was gained then, to protect the field, it would be dq from hole in stableford or dq from competition in medal (assuming the player has teed off from the next tee etc etc)

and then there's cheating

being DQ'd from a competition is not a reflection on your honesty at all - cheating tends to be reflected in a different level of 'penalty' completely.

whilst on the subject I would also point out that people do do the daftest things, say the most absurd things and generally get frustrated and flustered on a golf course, even more so when rules issues crop up or someone suggest's they may be mistaken about what just happened; none of this makes them a bad person and things are usually resolved easily once things have calmed down - there's nothing worse that watching 2 people argue about whether someone took x or y shots on a hole when neither can clearly explain how they got to that total; it's really easy to miss the obvious, and after 20 seconds of argument you can convince yourself of anything!

 

[JustOne]

Someone who breaks the rules isn't necessarily a cheat, but both need to be penalised as both would have broken the rules.

 

[Dodger]

So, are all rule breakers cheats?

What about ones who don't benefit? Not swapping cards for instance is a breach of rules but carries no advantage. Cheat? I think not.

But, what about the guy in the medal who moves one of several sticks touching the ball. It moves, into a worse lie than before. Yes, it's a penalty, but did he gain from it? Would you ping him?

Clearly playing stroke play and match play is against the rules, but cheating?

Carrying 15 clubs, but only using 7?

Holding the pin whilst putting out?

The biggest fool has to be the one that calls a penalty for an action that doesn't carry one.

 

[One Planer]

Isn't agreeing to ignore a rule, breaking a rule

 

[Smiffy]

There is a grey area where breaking rules is just that rather than cheating.

Bobmac and I had a 36 hole match at Woburn last year whilst taking part in a Stableford competition. Not once during the 36 holes did we ever get the feeling that we were cheating. 10 months on and I still feel the same.

 

[pbrown7582]

Bobmac and I had a 36 hole match at Woburn last year whilst taking part in a Stableford competition. Not once during the 36 holes did we ever get the feeling that we were cheating. 10 months on and I still feel the same.

obviously as your planning to do much the same at West Hill

 

[Smiffy]

obviously as your planning to do much the same at West Hill

Correct.

 

[bobmac]

Bobmac and I had a 36 hole match at Woburn last year whilst taking part in a Stableford competition. Not once during the 36 holes did we ever get the feeling that we were cheating. 10 months on and I still feel the same.

You even cheated by getting full h/cap

 

[chrisd]

I feel slightly different. I absolutely accept that for the majority of players, not knowing a rule and transgressing isn't "cheating" in the broadest sense of the word, but, there are a number of players who either, have made little effort to acquaint themselves with even the most basic of the rules, or, insist that something is a rule that absolutely isn't and I think that sometimes both things closely border cheating.

I feel that all players should make some effort to learn the basic rules needed for the average round of golf, so if your going to ground you club in a hazard and drop in the wrong place for free relief, then I might consider that as cheating if your not a beginner!

 

[Smiffy]

There is a difference between playing two formats at the same time and using a leather wedge or mis-counting to try to deceive your playing partner. I have never knowingly "cheated" in all the years I have been playing, and of somebody pulled me up on something I had done wrong through "ignorance" I would hold my hand up and take the punishment. But if somebody persistently called me a cheat then I'm afraid that my 4 iron might be heading in their direction.

 

[chrisd]

There is a difference between playing two formats at the same time and using a leather wedge or mis-counting to try to deceive your playing partner. I have never knowingly "cheated" in all the years I have been playing, and of somebody pulled me up on something I had done wrong through "ignorance" I would hold my hand up and take the punishment. But if somebody persistently called me a cheat then I'm afraid that my 4 iron might be heading in their direction.

If I was you mate, with your lack of practice, I'd chuck an 8 iron - I've seen you with a long iron and its embarrassing when you miss!

 

[bobmac]

If I was you mate, with your lack of practice, I'd chuck an 8 iron - I've seen you with a long iron and its embarrassing when you miss!

An 8 iron IS a long iron to Smiffy

 

[Doon frae Troon]

The lazy so and so's who play in competitions without basic knowledge of the rules of golf.
Met a few of them in my time.
Maybe not cheats but close to the line.