Bloody Students!

[chrisd]

The problem as far as I see it is there are far too many universities. Before labour decided that everone had a right to university education, there were only four universities in Scotland. Since then every further education college has been given university status. There are now fourteen in Scotland and 113 in the whole of the UK.
I would rather we go back to the two tier system whereby universities were responsible for degrees in such areas as Medicine, Law, Science,Classics etc. and Colleges were responsible for the "Mickey Mouse" degrees which so many students now "study". There are too many over qualified people in the market place with degrees in subjects that bear no resemblance to the job they have. Bring back the apprenticeship and let people attend college or night school to get diplomas in what the actually do.
When will these protesters also realise that although they voted for a Liberal Democratic government we do not have that. We have a coalition government.

Spot on. This sums it up for me too!


Chris

 

[CliveW]

The problem as far as I see it is there are far too many universities. Before labour decided that everone had a right to university education, there were only four universities in Scotland. Since then every further education college has been given university status. There are now fourteen in Scotland and 113 in the whole of the UK.
I would rather we go back to the two tier system whereby universities were responsible for degrees in such areas as Medicine, Law, Science,Classics etc. and Colleges were responsible for the "Mickey Mouse" degrees which so many students now "study". There are too many over qualified people in the market place with degrees in subjects that bear no resemblance to the job they have. Bring back the apprenticeship and let people attend college or night school to get diplomas in what the actually do.
When will these protesters also realise that although they voted for a Liberal Democratic government we do not have that. We have a coalition government.

Only 4 unis in Scotland before labour???? Have a word...

1. St Andrews
2. Aberdeen
3. Dundee
4. Edinburgh
5. Glasgow
6. Strathclyde
7. Stirling
8. Heriot Watt

St Andrews
Glasgow
Edinburgh
Aberdeen

 

[oleday]

The bankers screw us all and the youngsters have to pay for it. No wonder they are a touched miffed.

I work in the biosciences mainly with phd students. It is their innovation skill and hard work that will be paying for our healthcare and pensions in the future.

Read the daily mail it saves thinking.

 

[mjsw13]

The problem as far as I see it is there are far too many universities. Before labour decided that everone had a right to university education, there were only four universities in Scotland. Since then every further education college has been given university status. There are now fourteen in Scotland and 113 in the whole of the UK.
I would rather we go back to the two tier system whereby universities were responsible for degrees in such areas as Medicine, Law, Science,Classics etc. and Colleges were responsible for the "Mickey Mouse" degrees which so many students now "study". There are too many over qualified people in the market place with degrees in subjects that bear no resemblance to the job they have. Bring back the apprenticeship and let people attend college or night school to get diplomas in what the actually do.
When will these protesters also realise that although they voted for a Liberal Democratic government we do not have that. We have a coalition government.

Only 4 unis in Scotland before labour???? Have a word...

1. St Andrews
2. Aberdeen
3. Dundee
4. Edinburgh
5. Glasgow
6. Strathclyde
7. Stirling
8. Heriot Watt

St Andrews
Glasgow
Edinburgh
Aberdeen

The 8 I previously mentioned were all universities long before Labour came back into power.

Cheerio

 

[viscount17]

My eldest took a law/language degree which he started just after Blair got in and created the student debt programme.
My youngest is currently taking a degree in psychology. Earlier in the year she had plans to do her masters in Speech Therapy. My hope is that she still can.

 

[toonarmy]

MAs are costly now, so there'll be no change there and no reason to change those plans.

 

[Robobum]

For those students who work their arses off and cram in a Macjob just to scrape some cash together to live.......some sympathy.

For those who manage to be in every bar in town on a Thurs, Fri & Sat (and the other days probably) smashed out of your skull, kebab in hand and a cab back home.......tough sh!t, pay up, buck up or buck off.

 

[need_my_wedge]

Whatever the argument for/ against increasing student fees, there is no excuse for the behaviour shown in the demonstrations held. Urinating and spraying graffiti on Churchill's statue, swinging from the flag on the cenotaph, burning down the christmas tree in Trafalgar Square, attacking Charles & Camilla's car (or anyone else's for that matter), trashing shops on Oxford Street.....it is all totally unacceptable.If these people want me to respect their argument, they better start by showing some respect in the first place.

 

[Yerman]

1990 150000 students
2010 450000 students

How many media studies graduates do you need.

 

[Yerman]

Whatever the argument for/ against increasing student fees, there is no excuse for the behaviour shown in the demonstrations held. Urinating and spraying graffiti on Churchill's statue, swinging from the flag on the cenotaph, burning down the christmas tree in Trafalgar Square, attacking Charles & Camilla's car (or anyone else's for that matter), trashing shops on Oxford Street.....it is all totally unacceptable.If these people want me to respect their argument, they better start by showing some respect in the first place.

Anyone who attacks the car of a royal parasite can't be all bad!

Vive La Republic

 

[daymond]

Re Colint's post. Spot on; it says it all.
GM mag just arrived yee ha.

 

[funkyfred]

I agree with the fee increases.

Also these degrees are hardly full-time are they? Most people I know had 6 hours or so of lectures per week with a bit of written work. They spent the rest of their time dodging soap, purchasing pot noodles and dossing about in wetherspoons.

Oh, and for the rioters, I favour draconian action from the police, tear-gas, rubber-bullets, water-cannons, baton-charges, the lot. Destroy property & terrorise innocent people, assault police officers, then in my eyes be prepared for swift and brutal counteractions. I wish.

A good friend of mine's son does 3 hours a week!!! a bloody disgrace. He is on a 3 year course, why cant he do 9 hours aweek and take the course within one year.
His daughter has been back from univ some 18 months, doesn't use her degree and has a number of part time jobs and at the age of 23 still doesn't know what she wants to do.

Another guy I used to work with, his son was at Canterbury Univ doing 6 hours aweek, and demanded that he stay in residence. Then moaned that he couldn't get around whilst there, so his father bought him a car, crazy.

I'm all for the people to demonstate and have their say, but when they start to brake the laws of this country then as far as I am concerned they are nothing better than common criminals and should be dealt with accordingly.

 

[lobthewedge]

Whatever the argument for/ against increasing student fees, there is no excuse for the behaviour shown in the demonstrations held. Urinating and spraying graffiti on Churchill's statue, swinging from the flag on the cenotaph, burning down the christmas tree in Trafalgar Square, attacking Charles & Camilla's car (or anyone else's for that matter), trashing shops on Oxford Street.....it is all totally unacceptable.If these people want me to respect their argument, they better start by showing some respect in the first place.

Anyone who attacks the car of a royal parasite can't be all bad!

Vive La Republic

The Royals are big enough and ugly enough to look after themselves, but treating the Cenotaph like a climbing frame and pissing all over Churchills statue is unforgivable!

Find them and make the little soap dodging ba***rds clean the whole place up, introduce them to a days work!

 

[drawboy]

If I was offered top class education that could lead to a great job with a good salary and only had to pay £7.50 per month I and half of the world would bite their hands off for it. The typical student spends ten times that amount just in beer in a month so whats the argument.

 

[medwayjon]

I agree with the fee increases.

Why should those who leave school and go straight into employment effectively subsidise their peers who decide to go onto higher education?

I hate the whole graduate-bias that exists. I know someone in the police who had zero work experience and zero life experience when he joined the Police off the back of a history degree. 5 years on and he is now an inspector who has been fast-tracked for the sole reason that he did a degree, a degree which is of no correlation to his job.

Its so common that firms are hugely preocupied with employing people into senior positions solely on the basis that they have a degree of some sorts and to me this is wrong. Why should existing employees be overlooked when they have the skills and experience? Why should someone who studied classics and didnt wash for 3 years all of a sudden get a management job at Lloyds TSB?

Let them pay their fees, its not as if they have to pay them upfront and it is hardly as if they have to pay back hundreds of pounds per month once qualified.

Also these degrees are hardly full-time are they? Most people I know had 6 hours or so of lectures per week with a bit of written work. They spent the rest of their time dodging soap, purchasing pot noodles and dossing about in wetherspoons.

Oh, and for the rioters, I favour draconian action from the police, tear-gas, rubber-bullets, water-cannons, baton-charges, the lot. Destroy property & terrorise innocent people, assault police officers, then in my eyes be prepared for swift and brutal counteractions. I wish.

Oh dear, a lot of reverse intellectual snobbery, and a bit of jealousy, perhaps?

So this one example had no life experience. You mean he had been hermetically sealed for all his life, or he was a newborn? Because of he had lived, he had life experience. Perhaps not with the geezers you know, but perhaps your life experience is a poor example. And you think national policy should be based on (one side of the story of) one cop you dislike?

If most of the students you know just do 6 hours a week, then you only know a very biased sample doing some rubbish degrees, probably at a dodgy institution. Most of the students that I knew, medical, dental and law, did a damn site more work, and effectively were full time in classes and had additional work in the evenings.

The same medical students then went on to work 80-100 hours a week for years maintaining the hospitals at night and weekends, getting paid less than half the standard hourly rate for most of those hours, and the NHS depends on them. Then when they start to earn decent money, they pay disproportionate amounts of tax into the public purse to fund services that all of us, including you, enjoy.

I once spent a New Years Eve night in a busy hospital, and at 11.55pm was in Casualty seeing a guy with a heart attack. I admitted him, and the porter who came down to bring him to the coronary care unit complained about being on duty, but said that at least he was getting 3 and a half times his usual hourly rate. I was getting 38% of my usual hourly rate at the same time. So I was paying back my grant and have continued to do so with tax.

If fees rise, it starts to makes sense for the best prospects to consider US universities. Why not go to Harvard or Princeton if you are good enough? They will offer scholarships and bursaries and make it just as financially attractive as going to Bristol or Birmingham.

And as for 'draconian action', Jawohl, mein Fuhrer!! I assume you also think that Arbeit macht frei.

1) It is not intellectual snobbery in reverse or jealousy. I CHOSE to go into work as opposed to further education after completing A-Levels for which I got decent grades. I wanted to earn decent money so I could have a nice car and enjoy my young years rather than avoiding washing and living on beans on toast and cheap lager.

2) Nowhere did I say there werent excellent degree's such as law (which I start next year on a part-time basis) and Medicine (doctors are worth a hundred times what they get paid) amongst others. I made it clear the sort of student that gets my back up. FWIW I cant place a value on medical science, without the skill, precision and expertise of a team of midwifes, anaesthetists, paediatracians and obsteatricians (sorry if any of these spellings are wrong) I could well be without wife and 2 children.

3) I actually like the copper in question, even he chortles at what an easy ride to the top he has had,

4) Draconian action, I totally stand by this. The police should be able to respond with aggressive action in order to defend themselves and public/private property. What do the liberal-lefties want to do? Let them smash london to rubble and make the tax-payer pay for the repairs? Perhaps go and give them a hug and a pot-noodle? Not for me. I believe in robust action and if that means protesters end up getting injured, so be it. Is it ok for them to drag a copper to the floor and kick his head in?

 

[AuburnWarrior]

Everyone gets free education from the age of 5 to 18. If you want to continue learning after that age then you should have to pay for it - simple. This country cannot afford to pay for countless degrees in 'David Beckham' and media studies and sports sciences. If you want to study David Beckham and his effect on modern youth then you pay.

As far as I'm concerned, if you're going to do a degree then you should then use it in your chosen career. I work in the financial industry and I'm fed up with seeing 'grads' on our 'grads programme' being fast tracked with an English degree or a Sociology degree! Shouldn't they have a maths/economics, etc degree? To make matters worse, their writing is appalling and they can't add up!

To me, most university students are there for the beer - I'm not paying for that!

With regards the rioting, it was rent-a-mob. Apparently we have most CCTV cameras in the Western World - let's us them to catch the scum and then throw the book at them!

What is always ironic about these 'protests' is that Churchill's statue is always vandalised - why? If it wasn't for him and the people of England and our allies back in the day, these cretins wouldn't be able to protest!

 

[medwayjon]

The bastards that acted in that disgusting way towards the cenotaph and the Churchill statue should be punished with a very, very severe sentence as far as I am concerned.

Without Churchills leadership would we still be a democratic and free country?

And as for the cenotaph, how any piece of scum dare even touch this most sacred of monuments is beyond me and they deserve to be shot.

Auburn, you are along the same lines as me with this graduate scheme thing. When I was a branch manager in estate-agency they launched a graduate scheme. Starting salary was £22k p.a + Commission + Company vehicle as a trainee, a non-grad trainee negotiator got a £11k basic, no car, + commission + 1st 3 months guaranteed commission of £200 per month.

The graduates starting salary was £4k above the basic of a sales-manager and only £3k less than my basic as a branch manager, for a complete trainee.

Where is the logic and fairness in that???

As it happens most of those on the grad-scheme couldnt hack it and got the bullet anyway as you needed to be a pretty decent sales-person to last in my firm, and they had no sales experience and quite often no work experience whatsoever. Mind you they had a degree in P.E so whoop-whoop, lets take a punt on them on an inflated salary was the attitude of the directors.

 

[CrapHacker]

I think the students have every right to protest. The fees are a disgrace. Many people, including myself, would not have been able to go to Uni without grants and it would be hypocritical in the extreme to deny others the same.

Totally agree and I happen to support the students on this and in particular the capitulation of the Lib Dems from their manifesto promise.

Rubbish.

When I was younger the grant system was in place, when only the poorest families got full grants, the slighly better off only got part grant, with the rest being topped up, either by the kid's parents, or with the student themselves working through college.

Then Labour bought in fees.

No student riots then, that I can remember.

Now we are in the middle of a huge recession. Many people facing tough financial decisions, and pay cuts at work etc etc. With cutbacks everywhere else in our economy, why should students get away scott free?

So a politician lied and is doing a u-turn. And the shock is.....????

This fee system is far fairer than the old Labour one, there is no excuse for anyone not to go to uni, what with the system they have in place to pay the fees back. In fact the new system is far more socialist, than the labour idea of fairness.

And in many ways is better than what was in place when I was younger - I needed to change courses after one year, and because I'd used up one year of my grant, I couldn't afford to go back until I'd earned enough to pay for the year in full - by the time I'd got a job and earned teh money, I never got round to studying again.

If these fees had been in place I'd have been able to change courses, and been able to complete my degree before I had to find any funds.

Anyone who complains about this fee system, but keep quiet back in the late 90s when labour instigated all this, is just a political gainsayer.

 

[Del]

I am 100% with the government on this one, why should I, a tax payer (most of the time) pay so they can go to university.

If they want to leave school or college and go on to university I think it should be down to them or the family's to pay NOT ME. and lets not forget " No one will pay up front and only pay back after they are making £21,000 and then its only £7:00 per week"

I think the police have been right in the way they have gone about trying to handle the protesters.

The Protesters threw flares, sticks, snooker balls, paint balls and iron bars just to name a few things, so a few cracked heads is getting of lightly in my books. I would get out the water canons then tear gas the git's.

They should now publish every photo of anyone seen breaking the law and give them 6 months and ban them for life from going to any university in the UK.

 

[CrapHacker]

After the first demonstration there were bucket loads of acedemics appearing all over the media saying how good it was for the students to get politically active again after a generation of apathy.

I heard several lecturers say that damage to a few plate glass windows was small price to pay for the destruction of our education system, and that they supported the forceful occupation of buildings such as Tory HQ.

I'll ignore the fact that these knowledgable intellects didn't bother to check their facts.

But

Did these acedemics really not realise that by condoning those initial riots they were only going to increase the levels of violence at future marches?

I also wonder if they would agree that by condoning the violence and forcing the police to show a greater presence, the universities should carry the cost of A) policing the riots, and B) the cost of the 'minor' damage to the building ( which I bet by the end of these protests will run into millions ).

I just do not understand how such supposedly intellegent people can be so bloody thick.