Benefits of forged irons?

[Aztecs27]

OK, so as someone who's been away from the game for a while (having recently come back) and never really paid attention to club technology, I would like to know what the benefit of forged clubs are over cast now that I'm "in the market" for new irons which will most likely be Mizzy or Titleist.

 

[Smiffy]

A very good golfer will notice a difference as a forged club is slightly "softer" in feel.
A high handicapper will not.
Also, forged clubs will mark up easier than cast. Bag clatter will result in more dings and marks.
Forged clubs are easier to adjust for loft and lie than cast clubs. Some pro's won't touch cast clubs for fear of breaking them during alteration.
Me? I can't tell the difference. I hit both crap.

 

[medwayjon]

There is a definate difference in the feel of forged and cast clubs. What difference that actually makes to the shot I dont know as I am nowhere near good enough but allegedly you get better feel so can be more accurate (if your name is seve) so they say.

I prefer the feel of forged clubs and thats why I will play them.

As Smiffy says though, forged clubs do mark up very easily indeed and a new shiny set can look like they have been given a real hiding after a season of bag-clatter. Also if you should hit a stone you would be amazed at the dink in a forged club that can occur.

 

[Aztecs27]

I wasn't far off in my thinking then. Having looked at some items on eBay and some said "couple of dings, but only what you'd expect for a forged iron"...type of thing, I gathered they would be "softer" if they were forged from one solid piece of metal. Makes sense that they're easier to adjust too.

 

[USER1999]

The reason they are softer is that the material has to be forged, and hard metals don't forge well. Forgings tend to look simpler and cleaner due to the process. being simpler.

Big cavity backs tend to lend themselves to casting, as the shapes can be more complicated. Harder metals can be cast.

There has been a lot of research done on whether castings or forgings give a better feel. The latest thinking on this is that it makes no difference. Snobs and the deluded like to think they can tell a difference. Club makers like Maltby and Vokey say there is none. I know where my money lies.

Cast clubs (Ping for instance)will hold their value better, as the heads will stay in better condition. Forged clubs get battered quite quickly, but carry a certain snob appeal.

If there was no feel to cast clubs, the likes of Westwood wouldn't play them. One of the Nike players even chose the cast CCIs over the forged version.

You pays your money, and takes your choice.

 

[Smiffy]

The reason they are softer is that the material has to be forged, and hard metals don't forge well. Forgings tend to look simpler and cleaner due to the process. being simpler.

Big cavity backs tend to lend themselves to casting, as the shapes can be more complicated. Harder metals can be cast.

There has been a lot of research done on whether castings or forgings give a better feel. The latest thinking on this is that it makes no difference. Snobs and the deluded like to think they can tell a difference. Club makers like Maltby and Vokey say there is none. I know where my money lies.

Cast clubs (Ping for instance)will hold their value better, as the heads will stay in better condition. Forged clubs get battered quite quickly, but carry a certain snob appeal.

If there was no feel to cast clubs, the likes of Westwood wouldn't play them. One of the Nike players even chose the cast CCIs over the forged version.

You pays your money, and takes your choice.

A very good post.
Very "unknoblike"

 

[Tommo21]

Snobs and the deluded like to think they can tell a difference.

Total rubbish, having just changed myself, there is a massive difference in feel and feedback. Does this translate into better shots…not a jot if that’s what you mean? Using R7s for a few years myself, and I really like them, the feel from my AP2s is in a different league compared to them. I also played a few rounds with titlist ZB irons and they are cotton to hit….one of the reasons I went down the forged route. I'll bet my pension you can tell from R7s to AP2s.....with your eyes closed

 

[Smiffy]

Sometimes I can't even feel the ball leave my i15's they are that soft.

Mind you, I do have a lot of air shots

 

[USER1999]

Snobs and the deluded like to think they can tell a difference.

Total rubbish, having just changed myself, there is a massive difference in feel and feedback. Does this translate into better shots…not a jot if that’s what you mean? Using R7s for a few years myself, and I really like them, the feel from my AP2s is in a different league compared to them. I also played a few rounds with titlist ZB irons and they are cotton to hit….one of the reasons I went down the forged route. I'll bet my pension you can tell from R7s to AP2s.....with your eyes closed

You don't put it down to the club head design then, just the material it's made out of. So a little soft piece of plastic hitting a generally flippin hard piece of metal notices the difference between a few points on the rockwell scale.

I think not.

Your AP2s give a different feel due to the head design. Feel has been proven to be the noise the impact makes. This is tuned by the design of the head (and the little bits of plastic inserted into the AP2s do this). With headphones on, all clubs feel the same (if you hit the sweet spot).

 

[Smiffy]

All clubs feel the same (if you hit the sweet spot or hosel).

Corrected it for you Murph

 

[Tommo21]

As one of the deluded I havent put it down to anything. One thing for sure, they feel totally different when hit out the centre............how that is I dont give a fig. Oh, I also played the ZBs...no plastic in there.

Feel has been proven to be the noise. My hands are at the end of my arms, not my ears.

 

[USER1999]

I play ZBs so I know what they are like. I like the look of them. Well, I did when they were new. Now they look like they have been battered with a hammer.

If you do some back ground reading on the subject, you will find numerous views on feel v. noise, many by guys in the club making industry who are well respected (Roger Cleveland, Bob Vokey, Maltby, and others). Clearly with a lifetime making clubs, they know nothing.

On a similar subject, my 909 driver had a lovely soft feel, and made a satisfying thwack. My Nike feels rock hard, and makes a high pitched ting noise. Both have the maximum COR allowed, and so the faces deflect the same amount. Hence the faces must be similar materials and thicknesses. One cannot be harder than the other. The difference? The noise.

 

[Tommo21]

I play ZBs so I know what they are like. I like the look of them. Well, I did when they were new. Now they look like they have been battered with a hammer.

What has that got to do with it. What you are doing is going by what others are saying, not by individual. What part don’t you understand….the feel of the R7 is different to the AP2s when hit out the centre toe or heal. The noise, I don’t care about unless it sound like a tin can.

 

[USER1999]

But feel IS noise. That's all it is.

 

[HTL]

Come on sing along......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW2J_UZ8lQU

 

[Twire]

I'm with Murph on this. Joe bloggs ait gonna tell the difference between cast and forged. Also forged irons need to have lie and lofts checked regular, as the metal is a lot softer with forged clubs they can move with consistant heavy shots.

Tommo, your not compairing like for like. Feel will be different between R7's and AP1's that's not down to forged or cast.

 

[Tommo21]

Tommo, your not compairing like for like. Feel will be different between R7's and AP1's that's not down to forged or cast.

Tell me how it's not down to the forge or cast head. How is it not like for like. I hit my r7 4 iron, I hit my AP2 4 iron the AP2 feels...not sounds.... but feels much better. What other way can I compare it. I dont care what it's down to....It's just my opinion. If vokey tells you you wont know, then dont get them. If westwood plays pings...he gets wads of money for it and as I said they're every bit as good I'm sure. I tried screwbacks pings at castle stuart, again a different feel. You dont need to be the best player in the world to spot this and some of you need to stop reading too much crap from people who are trying to sell a product....

 

[Macster]

I'm not sure about this 'feel' thing we hear about all the time....

I played with Zing2's for many years, and they were certainly powerful clubs, and were'nt 'noisy' or hard when hit well.
I finally found I didnt like the look anymore, and changed to Titleist AP2's, and now CB's, which are definitely easier for me to work if I really must.

Do they feel 'softer' ? I dunno.......to me, any shot struck smoothly and middled will fly off the face effortlessly.
Do they sound different ? No, not a jot.

Do I prefer them ? yes, I do, but maybe i'll tire of them in another 12yrs too. I'm playing better and off a lower HC in the last 2years than ever before, but there again, that could be because I'm trying harder and focusing more, and my kids arent as young meaning I arent feeling as guilty as I go to the course as I used to feel. Thats a big advantage I can tell you.
Relaxed in mind means relaxed in body perhaps.

My CB's are gorgeous clubs, sleek simple lines, and all polished and chrome, but have no doubt, if you thin one, you'll be shaking your fillings loose.

 

[Twire]

Tommo, your not compairing like for like. Feel will be different between R7's and AP1's that's not down to forged or cast.

Tell me how it's not down to the forge or cast head. How is it not like for like. I hit my r7 4 iron, I hit my AP2 4 iron the AP2 feels...not sounds.... but feels much better. What other way can I compare it. I dont care what it's down to....It's just my opinion. If vokey tells you you wont know, then dont get them. If westwood plays pings...he gets wads of money for it and as I said they're every bit as good I'm sure. I tried screwbacks pings at castle stuart, again a different feel. You dont need to be the best player in the world to spot this and some of you need to stop reading too much crap from people who are trying to sell a product....

The only way you can tell "like for like", is if you had a forged r7 against a cast r7, change the club model and of course the feel will be different. That's not down to the material it's manufactured from, it's down to club design.

 

[Tommo21]

Tommo, your not compairing like for like. Feel will be different between R7's and AP1's that's not down to forged or cast.

Tell me how it's not down to the forge or cast head. How is it not like for like. I hit my r7 4 iron, I hit my AP2 4 iron the AP2 feels...not sounds.... but feels much better. What other way can I compare it. I dont care what it's down to....It's just my opinion. If vokey tells you you wont know, then dont get them. If westwood plays pings...he gets wads of money for it and as I said they're every bit as good I'm sure. I tried screwbacks pings at castle stuart, again a different feel. You dont need to be the best player in the world to spot this and some of you need to stop reading too much crap from people who are trying to sell a product....

The only way you can tell "like for like", is if you had a forged r7 against a cast r7, change the club model and of course the feel will be different. That's not down to the material it's manufactured from, it's down to club design.

Are we not talking about steel and forged, two different materials, so it's real stupid saying I'm not comparing like for like....they are different, that is the subject of this thread. Why cant it be down to the material even if you change model......how do you know this.