BDR - Let's Have a Debate!

[ADB]

Picking up from a piece in this month's GM which mentioned the proposals John Solheim has put forward to introduce three levels of Ball Distance Ratings (BDR). In summary:

1) Replace today's single golf ball distance limit with three different "Ball Distance Ratings" (or "BDRs") - one that is the same as today's limit, one that is shorter and one that is longer.

2) Adopt a "BDR Condition of Competition" - each event could apply the BDR appropriate for its course design and yardage, and for the skill level of the golfers competing at the event.

3) Include BDR as a factor in calculating handicaps -just as "slope rating" or choice of tee box does today, the BDR of the ball you use will factor into your handicap.

4) BDR golf balls should have similar flight characteristics as today's ball (trajectory, spin rates, etc) with the only variable being distance.

This is mainly aimed at kerbing the length off the tee at professional events on some of the more 'classic' layouts whereby some of the original hazards and defences of the courses would be brought back to play with the 'short' ball.

So, what is your view? Would it work in practice? How would the Pro's react? Will it complicate the handicapping system unnecessarily?

For my twopenneth, I can't see the Pros wanting to knock 30% off their distances even if it was a level playing field. Adjusting one week from hitting, say, a 6 iron 180 to the next week 126 is too great a drop. I like the idea in principle for the Pro game, but with closer tolerences (10/15%) with only two choices, the ball as it is today and a 'short ball.

 

[USER1999]

I am not keen. I don't want to turn on the telly and see Bubba giving it the big rip, and hitting it 200 yards. It is just wrong.

To me, the ball is not the answer. You could equally limit shaft flex to regular say, which would give them less control for the swing speed they want to hit it at. Again, not the answer.

Golfers are hitting it longer. Due to many variables. Grass length, fairway firmness, fitness, strength, conditioning, bio mechanics, modern coaching methods, shaft technology, ball technology (bear in mind this is limited already), and more.

Just choosing the ball is a one size fits all solution that actually doesn't suit all. I would rather they grew the fairways longer, brought the rough in, had proper rough as a third cut (not this 'ooh, that's a nasty lie' when you can see half the ball), and made bunkers hazards (rather than the manicured 'trap' which is the preferred bail out area - when was the last time you saw a pro golfer plug 2" down in the sand, right under the lip, as mine did on Sunday?).

 

[Oddsocks]

far to complicated, most people struggle with distance management as it is, do i want to learn 3 sets of distances... do i feck!

 

[Alex1975]

I want to play the same ball as the pros, I want to hit the same ball as my partners. It has to be what I perseve as fair and that means we all have the same kit. The pros and my playing partners are my bench mark and that how it should be in my opinion.

If I beat a guy off scratch with my handicap I still consider he beat me if he had less strokes. Playing a different ball to him as well is untenable to me.

I do get the idea though...

 

[ADB]

Murph, agree with you regarding the rough and slightly off topic, but all interrelated, what has been the real effect in the change in grooves? I watched some of the play at the Farmers and they were zipping it back on a string. Surely the point was to make players stay on the fairway in order that they can get the limited spin from the new grooves, maybe I haven't seen enough golf on TV, but it didn't seem to be the case?

Thread creep already.......:whoo:

 

[USER1999]

The groove experiment has been a failure in my view. Better to grow the grass longer.

They could make them all play Molitors?

 

[CMAC]

The groove experiment has been a failure in my view. Better to grow the grass longer.

They could make them all play Molitors?

or commandos...........

I'm all for the rough being exactly that........ROUGH. It made the Abu Dhabi scores come down from the normal 24 under to half that. The majors should be won by the accurate golfer as opposed to not being penalised for missing the fairway

 

[Monty_Brown]

I want to play the same ball as the pros, I want to hit the same ball as my partners. It has to be what I perseve as fair and that means we all have the same kit. The pros and my playing partners are my bench mark and that how it should be in my opinion.

If I beat a guy off scratch with my handicap I still consider he beat me if he had less strokes. Playing a different ball to him as well is untenable to me.

I do get the idea though...

You pretty much nailed it there Al.

It's been said many times on here before... Golf is rare in sport in that you can play the same courses, with the same gear, as the pros.

 

[Monty_Brown]

Effectively, any restrictions on balls, clubs etc are just artificially imposed handicaps to good play.

You might as well make them play drunk. John Daley might win another major.

 

[kid2]

I have to agree with nearly all the comments above....Its easy for pro's to have statistical figures go through the roof when they are hitting into greens a 1/3 the size of a football field....Try hitting into the ones at my course and see how they would fair out.....

As for technology.....Nothing will be done about it in my view because it cant be stopped......Technology moves with the times and so golf HAS to as well.....

They need to make it more appealing to younger people and make the game a little more approachable for the average joe.....
Thats where the technology kicks in....Its like handicaps......It levels the playing field a little.

As for grooves..... that has been the biggest flop of all....Literally......
Iv seen my younger brother spin 2 piece balls with his G15 irons from wedge distance on numerous occasions....

So if you ask me the powers that be that control these legislation's need to sit down far longer this time round and really try a burn a little saw dust to see where they can make things harder for the pro's.....I still struggle to figure out why the hell they changed groove rules for pro's but have it put back until 2024 for club golfers and yet the manufacturers have ceased selling the old groove equipment.....It makes no sense....

Its time that golf woke up and joined the 21st centuary!

 

[Region3]

I can't imagine ball manufacturers being happy about tripling their lines without hardly any extra revenue.

 

[Doc]

Have no desire to see the professional golfer hamstrung but hitting an 8 iron 199 yards is taking it well out of the range of achieve able targets for amateurs (can't remember who but I saw this over the weekend).

It would do the sport no harm to limit the pro ball to one standard spec around 2011 spec z star/xv or prov1/x and keep it at that whilst putting a tender out to one manufacturer for a standard tour ball.

They could award the tender to the company that does the best for the tour in terms of viwer / spectator enjoyment and let's say a youth tour/ league, renewing the tender every two years or so.

Just a thought.

Cheers

Steve...

 

[SocketRocket]

I think it has some merit for the tour players. Courses have been extended to their maximum to create a good test of golf for the proffessional golfer, look at the Old Course at St Andrews for example. I cant see a problem with limiting the distance a ball can carry in these comps. This is nothing new, I have a book 'Search for the Perfect Swing' by Cochran and Hobbs from over 20 years ago that shows where the subject was under discussion, it was suggested then that the spec for a tour ball should be that it floats in water.

The book also had some interesting facts on what effect grooves had in creating spin, some quite surprising results which I wont go into in this thread.

 

[Dave B]

Club selection and ball selection are two parts of the game that you have to get right as part of your game plan. Putting a limit on the type of ball a player has to use is almost as bad as dictating the type of club he can use.

Freedom of choice is what makes the game so interesting in addition to keeping a healthy market between manufacturers that allows them to invest in technology and keep the industry healthy.

 

[SocketRocket]

Club selection and ball selection are two parts of the game that you have to get right as part of your game plan. Putting a limit on the type of ball a player has to use is almost as bad as dictating the type of club he can use.

Freedom of choice is what makes the game so interesting in addition to keeping a healthy market between manufacturers that allows them to invest in technology and keep the industry healthy.

Restrictions have been placed on golf clubs, especially woods. The COR values have been given a limit for example.

 

[kid2]

Lad's....................Forgive the language....But changing a ball will make sh1t of a difference to a pro....Whether people think that it will level the playing field or not....It simply wont......Do people honestly think that if someone like Luke Donald was playing a ball regulated by the governing bodies that that same ball will have the same effect on the likes of Bubba Watson, Alvaro Quiros or for that matter John Daly who for the meantime has the longest recorded drive in a professional golf tournament which was recorded on August 4th 1997 in the British Open at 523 yards......

15 years ago....So has technology really gone forwards?

 

[USER1999]

May be the emphasis needs to be put back on shot shaping rather than distance. Not sure how, but the aerodynamics of modern golf balls favours a straight ish flight.

Better still, limit the pro's to 8 clubs. Make them hit 3/4 shots, punches, etc, rather than thinking it's 183 yards that's a nine iron. Fine if you have one in the bag. Give the caddies a break, give them a pencil bag to carry.

Limit lofts? Another idea. Drivers have to be 10 degrees minimum and no wedges more than 56 degrees.

There is lots they can whilst leaving the ball alone.

My choice would be banning x flex shafts.

 

[kid2]

May be the emphasis needs to be put back on shot shaping rather than distance. Not sure how, but the aerodynamics of modern golf balls favours a straight ish flight.

Better still, limit the pro's to 8 clubs. Make them hit 3/4 shots, punches, etc, rather than thinking it's 183 yards that's a nine iron. Fine if you have one in the bag. Give the caddies a break, give them a pencil bag to carry.

Limit lofts? Another idea. Drivers have to be 10 degrees minimum and no wedges more than 56 degrees.

There is lots they can whilst leaving the ball alone.

My choice would be banning x flex shafts.

....Excellent....

Imagine Bubb hitting a ladies flex....He has a start anyway with the present colour

 

[Dave B]

Brian

I'm aware of the core restrictions and was refering to lofts and club head size/dimensions. Pro's play driver lofts from 11.5 degrees down to 8.5 or thereabouts. A 3 wood can be anything from 13 degrees to 15.5 and irons by different manufacturers can vary by several degrees.

The player should be free to choose his clubs and the ball he plays. We could push it further and nominate a single manufacturers competition ball however how many players sponsorships would be affected?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

The simple answer is make the golf courses tougher. We've seen at events like the US Open that they narrow the fairway between 280 and 310 to about 10 paces and ask the pro the question off the tee. If they lay up they are hitting longer irons in and it brings the fairway bunkering back into play. Too often its easy to fly the traps as the rough isn't penal enough. Get the rough to be a factor, especially around the greens and make them think about what shot to play rather than blindly reaching for a 60 degree wedge. Design greens with run off areas and make accuracy the premium. Courses don't have to be long or tricked up but go back to the way they were 20 odd years ago before they were turned into target golf.

Dubai was a great example this weekend. There were scores to be had but danger lurking too. I accept that some courses on the European Tour (Crans etc) haven't got a lot of scope to work with with the unique conditions and to be fair its good that some weeks the pros get to have some more freedom. No-one wants to see events won at -5 every week but there again -25 birdie fests like we get in the US isn't riveting either. The ball isn't the answer and getting one manufacturer as a sole provider is hardly going to be a popular move as companies try and keep people employed in manufacturing in these economic times. What happens if the Pro V wins. What does Srixon, Nike, Cally etc do with their ball production?