Ball moved in a bunker

[Del]

was playing last night and hit my drive into a fairway bunker, the ball stopped on a bit of a down slope.

While standing behind and outside of the bunker I took a few couple practice swings,then just before I got into the bunker the ball rolled down the slope.

Now my playing partner said as I had been taking a practice swings outside of the bunker and in doing so was hitting the grass with my club the movement of the ball was caused by me and I had to take a penalty shot.

So is this correct? And if so should the ball be played as it lies all replace to the original position.

I took a penalty shot and played the ball from the new position,as I wanted to keep my card going being it was my third card and needed it for my handicap.

Many thanks

Del

 

[StrangelyBrown]

Your partner is wrong. You've not addressed the ball, no penalty stroke, play the ball from its new position.

 

[bladeplayer]

Now my playing partner said as I had been taking a practice swings outside of the bunker and in doing so was hitting the grass with my club the movement of the ball was caused by me and I had to take a penalty shot.

?????? How hard did he think you were making your practice swings ??? strange call on his behalf..Make sure you tell him he was wrong ,,

 

[jammydodger]

No penalty and play the ball as it lies.

 

[Del]

Thanks to you all, will let him know tomorrow.

I have not put in my card yet, going to drop it off tomorrow, ( the reason being, my partner forgot sign it, called him and he said he would do it tomorrow) so should I just keep it as it is or can it be changed before I do so, seeing as he hasn't signed it yet??

Cheers

Del

 

[brendy]

Lol were you practice swinging with Thors Mighty Hammer (tm)?

 

[bladeplayer]

Thanks to you all, will let him know tomorrow.

I have not put in my card yet, going to drop it off tomorrow, ( the reason being, my partner forgot sign it, called him and he said he would do it tomorrow) so should I just keep it as it is or can it be changed before I do so, seeing as he hasn't signed it yet??

Cheers

Del

get him to change it to what it should be & then write his initials beside it before he signs it

 

[bobmac]

get him to change it to what it should be & then write his initials beside it before he signs it

You don't need to initial any changes on a scorecard.
Only on a cheque

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Get it changed and get a copy of the rule book, if you have an iPhone or iPod touch there is an R&A app. That way if you're not sure what you are being told is correct you can ask your oppo to show you the rule.

 

[jammydodger]

Just take the penalty stroke off for that hole and there wont be any problems seeing as you played it from its new position anyway.

 

[forefortheday]

I think as you have "accepted" the penalty you should sign the card as it is.

I'd bring the fact he was wrong to his attention but you can't alter your card surely?

 

[chrisd]

You cant "accept" a wrong penalty, although in a comp he would have been unable to change it after it had been signed and submitted

As it is only for handicapping I believe that he should want it to be accurate


Chris

 

[Fyldewhite]

You cant "accept" a wrong penalty, although in a comp he would have been unable to change it after it had been signed and submitted

As it is only for handicapping I believe that he should want it to be accurate


Chris

Correct, you should get it changed. If it had been in a comp and the scorecard submitted then it would stand for the competition. In those circumstances you should get a ruling from them before submitting the card.

Incidentally, it had been a penalty then the ball should have been replaced and not played from the new position.

 

[bladeplayer]

get him to change it to what it should be & then write his initials beside it before he signs it

You don't need to initial any changes on a scorecard.
Only on a cheque

NO ?? i was told if you make an incorrect entry you should fully blot out the incorrect score & insert the new score beside it (do not change or write over the origional entry)then initial it .. i stand corrected , thanks bob

 

[forefortheday]

You cant "accept" a wrong penalty, although in a comp he would have been unable to change it after it had been signed and submitted

As it is only for handicapping I believe that he should want it to be accurate


Chris

But won't the score be inaccurate as he played the ball from the wrong position?

 

[USER1999]

He played the ball from the correct position, as he had not moved it, or caused it to move.

 

[bobmac]

get him to change it to what it should be & then write his initials beside it before he signs it

You don't need to initial any changes on a scorecard.
Only on a cheque

NO ?? i was told if you make an incorrect entry you should fully blot out the incorrect score & insert the new score beside it (do not change or write over the origional entry)then initial it .. i stand corrected , thanks bob

You're welcome.
It's a common myth

 

[The19thHole]

just out of interest, How did you score Del???

 

[Leftie]

Always have a copy of the rule book in your bag.

If anyone then wants to impose their version of a rule on you, hand them the rule book and ask them to show you the relevant rule.

Works a treat every time.

 

[MashieNiblick]

Even if you haven't addressed your ball you incur a penalty under Rule 18-2a if you "cause" your ball to move.

18 Ball at Rest Moved
18-2 - By Player, Partner, Caddie or Equipment
a. General
When a player’s ball is in play, if:
(i) the player, his partner or either of their caddies lifts or moves it, touches it purposely (except with a club in the act of addressing it) or causes it to move except as permitted by a Rule, or
(ii) equipment of the player or his partner causes the ball to move,
the player incurs a penalty of one stroke. If the ball is moved, it must be replaced, unless the movement of the ball occurs after the player has begun the stroke or the backward movement of the club for the stroke and the stroke is made.

There is an interesting Decision on this subject

"18-2a/30 Ball Moves After Player Takes Several Practice Swings Near Ball and Touches Grass Behind Ball

Q. A player took several practice swings about one foot from his ball which was lying in light rough, and his club came in contact with the ground. He then took his stance, touched grass behind the ball with the clubhead but did not ground the club. At that point the ball moved.
The player claimed that no penalty was incurred because he had not addressed the ball. However, the Committee judged that the practice swings and the touching of the grass behind the ball caused the ball to move, and therefore the player incurred a penalty stroke under Rule 18-2a. Was the Committee correct?

A.It is a question of fact whether the player caused his ball to move and thus incurred a penalty under Rule 18-2a. Because of the practice swings and touching of the grass, the weight of evidence is against the player and therefore the Committee's decision was correct."

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateu...mp;subRuleNum=2

From what you say I think it is highly unlikely that your practice swings caused your ball to move. You were well away from the ball and the ball moved well after you had made the swings.

You were also outside the bunker when the ball moved, so you didn't cause it to move e.g. by disturbing the sand when approaching it (see Decision 18-2b/3 Ball Moves While Player in Process of Taking Stance in Bunker and Decision 18/10 Ball Falls into Bunker When Person Walks Nearby).

However had you taken a few good thumps just by your ball and right after one of those it rolled down the slope, he might have had a case.

I have noticed that if you watch the pros when they have a shot in long grass they will often take their practice swings well away from where the ball is to ensure there's no possibility of the effect of their practice swings moving it (or appearing to improve the area of stance or swing).

Incidentally, as indicated above, if you had proceeded correctly in accordance with rule 18-2a you should have replaced the ball. In that case you wouldn't have the option later to knock off the penalty stroke. Lucky then that you didn't in fact replace it. However if (unlikely though it is) the secretary thinks 18-2a does apply you're in for a 2 stroke penalty (instead of the 1 stroke penalty) for breach of Rule.

This was one of those situations where the second ball rule (Rule 3-3 - Doubt as to Procedure) could have been helpful.

Ball moving after address is covered by Rule 18-2b. In that case if you have addressed the ball and it moves you are "deemed to have moved the ball" and it's a 1 stroke penalty and the ball must be replaced.