Ball hanging over the hole

[Darrengrice]

Think I’ve had a harsh lesson
It was all spur of the moment stuff, and got wrapped up in the emotions of a tight match
I agree with Duncan, I should have waited the allotted 10 seconds, then there is no doubt, it was on the 17th green, and I was 2 up at the time, and got a little exited

So you all know the outcome, I conceded the hole, then in my frustrations, I lost the 18th, halved the first play off hole, and lost the next, to loose the match for a place in the final 😡

Thank you all for your comments 👍

 

[robinthehood]

Think I’ve had a harsh lesson
It was all spur of the moment stuff, and got wrapped up in the emotions of a tight match
I agree with Duncan, I should have waited the allotted 10 seconds, then there is no doubt, it was on the 17th green, and I was 2 up at the time, and got a little exited

So you all know the outcome, I conceded the hole, then in my frustrations, I lost the 18th, halved the first play off hole, and lost the next, to loose the match for a place in the final 😡

Thank you all for your comments 👍

That's hard luck. How come he didn't give the putt ? Seems an odd thing to ask for the flag to be removed first. I'd have just tapped in . Worst case he makes you replay the shot

 

[Bunkermagnet]

That's hard luck. How come he didn't give the putt ? Seems an odd thing to ask for the flag to be removed first. I'd have just tapped in . Worst case he makes you replay the shot

Thats exactly my thoughts.
If I were your opponent, I would allowed you the 10 seconds, then told you "thats good" so you could knock it away before removing the pin. I wouldnt have asked you to putt out or even mark it.
TBH it sounds to me like you were done over by a bit of mind games....better luck next time.

 

[Darrengrice]

He was on the green for 3 and made 5
If my chip dropped it was for 5, obviously he would have gave the putt for a 6
As I walked to hole he asked me to pull the flag, which I did, I was then going to wait for remaining seconds, but it dropped on pulling flag, in hindsight, I know I should have just left it in, and waited!!!
And like I admit, it may well of not dropped , if I hadn’t pulled it !

 

[Orikoru]

He was on the green for 3 and made 5
If my chip dropped it was for 5, obviously he would have gave the putt for a 6
As I walked to hole he asked me to pull the flag, which I did, I was then going to wait for remaining seconds, but it dropped on pulling flag, in hindsight, I know I should have just left it in, and waited!!!
And like I admit, it may well of not dropped , if I hadn’t pulled it !

I don't get how you think pulling the flag made it fall in if the ball wasn't touching it? Did you pull it out so fast the gust of wind may have blown it in??

 

[Darrengrice]

I don't get how you think pulling the flag made it fall in if the ball wasn't touching it? Did you pull it out so fast the gust of wind may have blown it in??

As I pulled it, it snagged to the edge slightly, and I just feel the vibration possibly made the balk drop, as it was that close

 

[Colin L]

Either some part of the ball was below the level of the green surface when it was 'perched over the hole, or it wasn't - your description doesn't help here.

1. It was - the ball is already holed.
2. It wasn't - you took a deliberate action which caused your ball to move, without having marked it's position. One stroke penalty and the ball must be replaced.

Duncan
I'd suggest that while the action of removing the flagstick was deliberate the outcome of the ball's falling into the hole was accidental (not matter how forceful the action) unless it was the player's intention to cause it to do so. If that wasn't his intent, there would no penalty and he would place the ball on the lip of the hole and hole out.

 

[duncan mackie]

Duncan
I'd suggest that while the action of removing the flagstick was deliberate the outcome of the ball's falling into the hole was accidental (not matter how forceful the action) unless it was the player's intention to cause it to do so. If that wasn't his intent, there would no penalty and he would place the ball on the lip of the hole and hole out.

On reflection I would agree.

Whilst it didn't change the result on this hole it's an important aspect of the whole accidental issue that now forms an important element of the new rules.

I take it you do agree that had he been putting (from the green) he couldn't avoid penalty regardless of whether his action caused the ball''s movement?

 

[rulefan]

On reflection I would agree.

Whilst it didn't change the result on this hole it's an important aspect of the whole accidental issue that now forms an important element of the new rules.

I take it you do agree that had he been putting (from the green) he couldn't avoid penalty regardless of whether his action caused the ball''s movement?

Why?

 

[Colin L]

On reflection I would agree.

Whilst it didn't change the result on this hole it's an important aspect of the whole accidental issue that now forms an important element of the new rules.

I take it you do agree that had he been putting (from the green) he couldn't avoid penalty regardless of whether his action caused the ball''s movement?

I don't follow that.

 

[duncan mackie]

I don't follow that.

OK I was thinking 13.2 a (3) but re-reading it I think it's hard to argue that such an action in these circumstances would be intended to influence where the ball finally comes to rest.

 

[rulefan]

OK I was thinking 13.2 a (3) but re-reading it I think it's hard to argue that such an action in these circumstances would be intended to influence where the ball finally comes to rest.

 

[RulesGuy]

To be penalised it has to be known or virtually certain that the player caused the ball to move. A high standard of proof

 

[Barrie J]

On a recent match play event, taking my Fifth shot
I chipped up to the hole from 40 yards, as I walked to the pin, the ball was perched over the hole, within the allowable 10 seconds I lifted the pin, admittedly with force, the ball dropped in, what is the ruling?

If you have the Official Guide or access to it, Interpretation 13.3b/1 could be of assistance.