Ball flight laws

[Hobbit]

Agree.

Disagree.
Draw: imagine a big clock laid on the ground with number 12 towards the target. (Stance and) swingpath from 8 to 2 but the clubface is pointing towards 1....the ball will start out heading towards 1 and curve towards 12.

Fade: Same clock face but (stance and) swing path goes from 4 to 10 and the clubface is pointing towards 11. Ball starts towards 11 and curves back towards 12.



Agree

Maybe our clocks are not quite in sync but we're both on the same page - hate mixed metaphors. Different point on the clock for different clubs is how I've always thought it... but I'm beginning to wonder if I've had the book upside down with all the confusion flying around. Hey hum, someone's making money out the next 'new' thing.

 

[MashieNiblick]

Draw: imagine a big clock laid on the ground with number 12 towards the target. (Stance and) swingpath from 8 to 2 but the clubface is pointing towards 1....the ball will start out heading towards 1 and curve towards 12.

Fade: Same clock face but (stance and) swing path goes from 4 to 10 and the clubface is pointing towards 11. Ball starts towards 11 and curves back towards 12.

Super, nice and simple. If I've interpreted correctly then

Draw: Target = 12 o'clock; Aim club at 1; Line up and swing towards 2
Fade: Target = 12 o'clock; Aim club at 11; Line up and swing towards 10

As for Faldo and crew doing it "wrong" here's my theory.

In his book "A swing for life" Faldo says

"The majority of the shots I play are created with feel... Working around a consistent set up position I simply picture the shape in my mind and feel the desired spin in my hands and arms as I swing the club through impact".

He then talks about "holding off" the face through impact when he hits a fade. Later he explains how to hit a fade using a simpler technique based on the aim the face at the target set up that's been discussed.

Now Faldo hit 100s of thousands of golf balls. He could see the flight that each swing produced. He "feels" what he needs to do to create the flight he wants. He is good enough to make that happen even if he sets up "incorrectly". So I think when he (and other pros) used the aim at the target approach he simply didn't return the face square to where he set up because hours of practice had established the swing he needed to hit that shot with that set up by "feel" or shall we say unconsciously. That resulted in the face pointing slightly left of the target line at impact (for the fade) rather than returning to the set up position.

That's why I think, as suggested by others, he got the results he intended but wasn't doing what he tought he was doing.

Might be drivel but just a thought about why this theory has endured amongst the pros.

 

[JustOne]

Disagree.
Draw: imagine a big clock laid on the ground with number 12 towards the target. (Stance and) swingpath from 8 to 2 but the clubface is pointing towards 1....the ball will start out heading towards 1 and curve towards 12.

LOL, I don't agree. That's a hook.


Mashie you are 100% right in you Faldo example, he wasn't doing what he thought (said) he was.

 

[sev112]

You are ALL wrong ... ( ha ha - joke)

Actually one thing you clever people can tell me, is what the "new" laws say about a club face that is (e.g.) open at start of impact but which is closing during the period of contact of clubface with ball (we know from numerous experiments and high speed photos that the ball is contact with the face for an extended period durnig whcih it compresses and then extends before it leave the clubface). I'd be intereseted in what shot shape you think that would make.

 

[JustOne]

Actually one thing you clever people can tell me, is what the "new" laws say about a club face that is (e.g.) open at start of impact but which is closing during the period of contact of clubface with ball (we know from numerous experiments and high speed photos that the ball is contact with the face for an extended period durnig whcih it compresses and then extends before it leave the clubface). I'd be intereseted in what shot shape you think that would make.

The ball is in contact with the club for approx 1/2000th of a second. The clubface closing has no adverse effect (it's always closing as we swing on an arc) it's only where the clubface is pointing the millisecond the ball leaves the face that is important, in relation to the path.

Rolling your wrists has practically no significance whatsoever apart from making it terribly difficult to time exactly where the clubface will be pointing at the moment the ball leaves the face.... normally low and left

 

[SocketRocket]

The ball is in contact with the club for approx 1/2000th of a second. The clubface closing has no adverse effect (it's always closing as we swing on an arc) it's only where the clubface is pointing the millisecond the ball leaves the face that is important, in relation to the path.

Rolling your wrists has practically no significance whatsoever apart from making it terribly difficult to time exactly where the clubface will be pointing at the moment the ball leaves the face.... normally low and left

Exactly

 

[SocketRocket]

Super, nice and simple. If I've interpreted correctly then

Draw: Target = 12 o'clock; Aim club at 1; Line up and swing towards 2
Fade: Target = 12 o'clock; Aim club at 11; Line up and swing towards 10

As for Faldo and crew doing it "wrong" here's my theory.

In his book "A swing for life" Faldo says

"The majority of the shots I play are created with feel... Working around a consistent set up position I simply picture the shape in my mind and feel the desired spin in my hands and arms as I swing the club through impact".

He then talks about "holding off" the face through impact when he hits a fade. Later he explains how to hit a fade using a simpler technique based on the aim the face at the target set up that's been discussed.

Now Faldo hit 100s of thousands of golf balls. He could see the flight that each swing produced. He "feels" what he needs to do to create the flight he wants. He is good enough to make that happen even if he sets up "incorrectly". So I think when he (and other pros) used the aim at the target approach he simply didn't return the face square to where he set up because hours of practice had established the swing he needed to hit that shot with that set up by "feel" or shall we say unconsciously. That resulted in the face pointing slightly left of the target line at impact (for the fade) rather than returning to the set up position.

That's why I think, as suggested by others, he got the results he intended but wasn't doing what he tought he was doing.

Might be drivel but just a thought about why this theory has endured amongst the pros.

I agree