ball embedded in the grassy bank of a bunker what is the procedure

[James Ritchie]

what is the procedure if a ball is embedded in the grassy bank of a bunker

 

[doublebogey7]

As the ball is embedded (rule 16.3) in the general area (ref definition of a bunker) the player may take a drop without penalty following the procedure outlined in rule14.3.

 

[oltimer]

What is the procedure if all points not nearer result in the dropped ball ending up in the bunker ??

 

[backwoodsman]

What is the procedure if all points not nearer result in the dropped ball ending up in the bunker ??

The reference point for relief for an embedded ball is immediately behing the point of embedment (if that's a word??) So unless the ball is embedded absolutely, slap bang, on the edge of the bunker, then there will be at least a very tiny bit of the relief area available in which to drop and possibly, eventually, place the ball. Might not be good or nice, but it's likely to be there.

 

[rulefan]

What is the procedure if all points not nearer result in the dropped ball ending up in the bunker ??

Free relief is not available. Either play it as it lies or take an unplayable.
This 'Clarification' refers

Rule 16.3b:

1. Player Not Always Allowed to Take Embedded Ball Relief:​

If a player’s ball is embedded in the general area but neither the reference point nor any part of the course within one club-length of the reference point is in the general area, the player is not allowed to take free relief under Rule 16.3b.​

For example, free relief is not allowed if:​

- a ball is embedded at the very base of the lip, wall or face above a bunker,​

- the spot right behind the ball is in the bunker and​

- within one club-length of and not nearer the hole from that reference point, there is no part of the relief area that is in the general area.​

 

[rulefan]

The reference point for relief for an embedded ball is immediately behing the point of embedment (if that's a word??) So unless the ball is embedded absolutely, slap bang, on the edge of the bunker, then there will be at least a very tiny bit of the relief area available in which to drop and possibly, eventually, place the ball. Might not be good or nice, but it's likely to be there.

I read the OP as the ball being embedded in the face of the bunker, such that there is nowhere in the bunker where the ball will stay in place.

 

[duncan mackie]

The reference point for relief for an embedded ball is immediately behing the point of embedment (if that's a word??) So unless the ball is embedded absolutely, slap bang, on the edge of the bunker, then there will be at least a very tiny bit of the relief area available in which to drop and possibly, eventually, place the ball. Might not be good or nice, but it's likely to be there.

Yes - but if there isn't (likely) you are stuck with the clarification posted by rulefan.

It's the new rules version of the impossible casual water in a bunker scenario 🤔

 

[williamalex1]

I seem to recall there was a post on here a while ago
showing diagrams about this , before the rule changes, if the ball was embedded so far in the face that it was actually outwith the confines of the bunker.
Has this changed ?

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Free relief is not available. Either play it as it lies or take an unplayable.
This 'Clarification' refers

Rule 16.3b:

1. Player Not Always Allowed to Take Embedded Ball Relief:​

If a player’s ball is embedded in the general area but neither the reference point nor any part of the course within one club-length of the reference point is in the general area, the player is not allowed to take free relief under Rule 16.3b.​

For example, free relief is not allowed if:​

- a ball is embedded at the very base of the lip, wall or face above a bunker,​

- the spot right behind the ball is in the bunker and​

- within one club-length of and not nearer the hole from that reference point, there is no part of the relief area that is in the general area.​

But if it is embedded in a bank above a bunker then it's in the general area so presumably they could drop / place within 1 club length NNTH and it would still be in the general area. Interesting if you cannot drop or place on the bank as it wouldn't stay still and rolls into the bunker. Are you then allowed to got to NPR?

 

[rulefan]

I seem to recall there was a post on here a while ago
showing diagrams about this , before the rule changes, if the ball was embedded so far in the face that it was actually outwith the confines of the bunker.
Has this changed ?

From the new definition of a bunker
Not part of a bunker:
A lip, wall or face at the edge of a prepared area and consisting of soil, grass, stacked turf or artificial materials,

 

[rulefan]

But if it is embedded in a bank above a bunker then it's in the general area so presumably they could drop / place within 1 club length NNTH and it would still be in the general area. Interesting if you cannot drop or place on the bank as it wouldn't stay still and rolls into the bunker. Are you then allowed to got to NPR?

1) Yes
2) No, there is no NPR, the reference point must be used for the 1cl measure. See post #9

 

[backwoodsman]

I read the OP as the ball being embedded in the face of the bunker, such that there is nowhere in the bunker where the ball will stay in place.

In which case, point taken ...

 

[rulie]

If there is a reference point in the general area, the player is permitted to try and drop at that reference point. If the ball rolls into the bunker twice, try and place at the spot where it struck the ground on the second drop. If it won't stay on that spot, find the nearest spot in the general area, not nearer the hole, where it will come to rest and place it at that spot. Play on.
It would be a rare occurrence when there is not a reference point (immediately behind the embedded ball) in the general area.

 

[Colin L]

Not so rare in this part of the world, perhaps. Allmost all the bunkers at my own club have near vertical faces and I think that is not uncommon here. Are bunkers in your part of the world constructed differently?

Someone suggested to me that it was hghly unlikely that a ball could end up embedded in a vertical face - thinking of its angle of descent. I don't disgree with that, but can see it happen quite readily from a badly thinned shot from inside the bunker.

 

[IanM]

We had a ball plug in the grass face above (outside) the bunker.... grass not mowed to fairway height.

Free drop or not?

 

[jim8flog]

We had a ball plug in the grass face above (outside) the bunker.... grass not mowed to fairway height.

Free drop or not?

Relief for an embedded ball is now in the general area. The requirement for it to be in an area of closely mown grass was removed in the 2019 rules.

 

[IanM]

Was the majority view, but there was a noisy dissenter!