Ball embedded by FC ?

[Foxholer]

I've played for a zillion years and you absolutely know when you have stepped on a ball, its the way many are found in the rough. So either your fc pp ao lb sp (wish people wouldn't abbreviate all the time) knew he/she stepped on it and ignored it, or it was def plugged and unless the lr (there it is again) was in force you are uagtwap

Er. Why would you need a p (apart from a different p) when you are uagt?

 

[rulefan]

Depends on which resulted in the plugged ball.

If it was definately trodden down the 18-4. If any uncertainty or lack of evidence to prove it was trodden then relief under the local rule.

I was trying to get someone to mention the Note to rule 18-1.

 

[palindromicbob]

I was trying to get someone to mention the Note to rule 18-1.

18-1 doesn't apply because it is a fellow competitor not an outside agency. I've already alluded to the note 2 of 18-4 in my previous answer which then refers you to Rule 20-3.

 

[rulefan]

18-1 doesn't apply because it is a fellow competitor not an outside agency.

Perhaps you should check the definition of Outside Agency. Remember, 'things' can have more than one status.

However, my point was about the ball being moved by an outside agency being a question of fact not of speculation.

Note 2 of course relates to all sub-sections of Rule 18, including 18-1, not just 18-4.

 

[palindromicbob]

Perhaps you should check the definition of Outside Agency. Remember, 'things' can have more than one status.

However, my point was about the ball being moved by an outside agency being a question of fact not of speculation.

Note 2 of course relates to all sub-sections of Rule 18, including 18-1, not just 18-4.

Never though about it that way before. Thanks. Easy to overlook the definition of an outside agency when fellow competitor is separated from it within the rules.

 

[backwoodsman]

Perhaps you should check the definition of Outside Agency. Remember, 'things' can have more than one status.

However, my point was about the ball being moved by an outside agency being a question of fact not of speculation.

Note 2 of course relates to all sub-sections of Rule 18, including 18-1, not just 18-4.

This one by rulefan has got me intrigued now...

Because the definition of outside agency means an FC is an outside agency, why is there a need to have both 18-1 and 18-4? Ie what's the point of 18-4 that is not covered by 18-1? I'm obviously missing something.

 

[backwoodsman]

This one by rulefan has got me intrigued now...

Because the definition of outside agency means an FC is an outside agency, why is there a need to have both 18-1 and 18-4? Ie what's the point of 18-4 that is not covered by 18-1? I'm obviously missing something.

Ah ha... read 18-4 a couple more times now and think I've spotted it. But interested to see if the explanation from the more experienced confirms my thoughts.

 

[rulefan]

See also Rule 19

 

[Foxholer]

Ah ha... read 18-4 a couple more times now and think I've spotted it. But interested to see if the explanation from the more experienced confirms my thoughts.

Fellow Competitor is indeed an Outside Agency, but a 'special case' of one and there are a few Rules/situations that apply (only) to him/her - playing the wrong ball, unauthorised attendance of flag being a couple.

 

[backwoodsman]

Fellow Competitor is indeed an Outside Agency, but a 'special case' of one and there are a few Rules/situations that apply (only) to him/her - playing the wrong ball, unauthorised attendance of flag being a couple.

I appreciate that - but I was thinking solely in terms of Rule 18

See also Rule 19

As above - was only thinking in terms of rule 18. But rule 19 makes more obvious sense in having a section (19-1) about outside agencies, and then another (19-4) about fellow competitors - because 19-4 effectively says "FC's - all as 19-1 above for OAs but there's an exception as follows, blah blah"

What I realised was that 18-4 is not really "related to" or duplicating 18-1 - it just sets out the strokeplay counter-version of the matchplay rule 18-3 (which takes a dim view of an opponent touching your ball and waggles penalties under their nose)