Ball embedded by FC ?

[upsidedown]

In the medal today I pulled a drive left and we heard it hit a tree.

We started looking for it and after a while in an area where my FC had been searching I found it, it was how ever embedded , probably by being trodden on by FC as pretty firm ground and had hit tree.

Unsure if I was entitled to relief so played it as it was.

Was any relief allowed ?

Cheers

 

[Foxholer]

Unless FC knows for sure that he did (KVC), then no imo.

 

[atticusfinch]

If the ball is embedded in its own pitch mark you are entitled to relief under rule 25-2. If the ball has been moved by an opponent or FC rule 18-3 or 4 applies. Movement includes downward movement caused by stepping on it.

 

[rulefan]

If the ball is embedded in its own pitch mark you are entitled to relief under rule 25-2.

It depends on whether the ball was on the 'fairway' or through the green and the appropriate local rule being in force (in Shropshire during the summer, unlikely; this winter/spring, probably)

 

[Foxholer]

If the ball is embedded in its own pitch mark you are entitled to relief under rule 25-2. If the ball has been moved by an opponent or FC rule 18-3 or 4 applies. Movement includes downward movement caused by stepping on it.

In the rough? Which is presumably where it was, because they were looking for it. Only if the appropriate LR was in place. If the LR was in place, then relief would be available by 18-4 (it was FC). I have presumed that 'Plugged in the Rough' LR isn't applicable - otherwise there would be no doubt that relief was available for one reason or the other.

 

[rulefan]

otherwise there would be no doubt that relief was available for one reason or the other.

There would have to be supporting evidence that the FC or an OA stepped on it and not the player. Or that did embed in its own pitchmark, rather than just rolling into a small hole.

 

[upsidedown]

LR is still in place that entitles to relief from embedded ball in rough and had I not heard the ball hitting the tree would have had no hesitation " picking, cleaning and dropping"
But as it had hit the tree I assumed the only way in all probability for it to be embedded was for FC to have trodden on it and then unsure if LR was still applicable .

Fair to say I was allowed relief then ?

 

[upsidedown]

There would have to be supporting evidence that the FC or an OA stepped on it and not the player. Or that did embed in its own pitchmark, rather than just rolling into a small hole.

It did look like it had been pressed down and only FC had been searching there not me till I found it.

 

[Foxholer]

There would have to be supporting evidence that the FC or an OA stepped on it and not the player. Or that did embed in its own pitchmark, rather than just rolling into a small hole.

Surely the tightness if the imbeddedness would be sufficient? Rolling in would mean 'loose', while 'stuck' would mean either plugged or stood upon - at least to the 'virtually certain' level?

 

[rulefan]

Surely the tightness if the imbeddedness would be sufficient? Rolling in would mean 'loose', while 'stuck' would mean either plugged or stood upon - at least to the 'virtually certain' level?

But what is he to do?
Replace - 18-4 or drop LR?

 

[Foxholer]

But what is he to do?
Replace - 18-4 or drop LR?

Ah, good point. I was thinking Drop for both, but it isn't. The replace wouldn't be in the same place of course, because that is now a dent in which the ball is embedded!

Interesting that you 'know' he should get 'relief' (note the aposts), but because you can't absolutely identify why, then has to play it as it lies! Is there an Equity consideration?

 

[rulefan]

I don't see why not. I can't think of a rule/decision that covers it.
I suggest the player determines which is the most likely and proceeds from there but could be persuaded that he places.

 

[palindromicbob]

Ah, good point. I was thinking Drop for both, but it isn't. The replace wouldn't be in the same place of course, because that is now a dent in which the ball is embedded!

Interesting that you 'know' he should get 'relief' (note the aposts), but because you can't absolutely identify why, then has to play it as it lies! Is there an Equity consideration?

Drop if embedded relief under LR.
Under 18-4 then place at nearest lie most similar to the original because the original lie has been altered by the ball being pressed into the ground. This would probably be beside the hole left behind if the area was good. In thick rough it could be argued that original lie can't be determined so a drop as near to the spot as possible would be required. Rule 20-3.

 

[upsidedown]

Cheers guys :thup:

 

[rulefan]

Drop if embedded relief under LR.
Under 18-4 then place at nearest lie most similar to the original because the original lie has been altered by the ball being pressed into the ground. This would probably be beside the hole left behind if the area was good. In thick rough it could be argued that original lie can't be determined so a drop as near to the spot as possible would be required. Rule 20-3.

But which ?

 

[CMAC]

I've played for a zillion years and you absolutely know when you have stepped on a ball, its the way many are found in the rough. So either your fc pp ao lb sp (wish people wouldn't abbreviate all the time) knew he/she stepped on it and ignored it, or it was def plugged and unless the lr (there it is again) was in force you are uagtwap

 

[Slab]

I've played for a zillion years and you absolutely know when you have stepped on a ball, its the way many are found in the rough. So either your fc pp ao lb sp (wish people wouldn't abbreviate all the time) knew he/she stepped on it and ignored it, or it was def plugged and unless the lr (there it is again) was in force you are uagtwap

But I've trod on a zillion 'balls' in the rough and rarely is it actually a ball, the vast majority are stones

 

[atticusfinch]

But what is he to do?
Replace - 18-4 or drop LR?

Isn't it a factual question? If it is embedded in its own pitch mark one rule. If it has been pressed down, another.

 

[CMAC]

But I've trod on a zillion 'balls' in the rough and rarely is it actually a ball, the vast majority are stones

But you stop and look don't you? Or am I in the minority when looking for a ball and stand on something that could be a ball

 

[palindromicbob]

But which ?

Depends on which resulted in the plugged ball.

If it was definately trodden down the 18-4. If any uncertainty or lack of evidence to prove it was trodden then relief under the local rule.