Attacks in London

SocketRocket said:
Genuine question. We train Police Officers to use Tazers, is it more difficult to train them to use a sidearm? I had training in the use of small arms in the Navy and it seemed straight forward enough.
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Never having done it personally, I can't answer the question as to difficulty in training. What I can say is that they would be more readily accepted by the majority of officers as they would be viewed as a non-lethal option as opposed to the finality of a firearm, and I believe the general public would be more accepting of a Tazer than a firearm. There is also the advantage that you can potentially interrogate the suspect afterwards.
 
SocketRocket said:
Genuine question. We train Police Officers to use Tazers, is it more difficult to train them to use a sidearm?
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Yes, I knew plenty who were excellent with rifles and overall very good service personnel but struggled with a side arm.

drawing a side arm is much more of a conscious decision than drawing a taser, plus, going into a close quarter situation (house) with a side arm drawn takes a lot of training and some officers just won't pass that test, so to arm them all could lead to many errors in judgement, they didn't join to be put in that situation, so its another vote against arming all officers imo.
 
Hobbit said:
I wouldn't be that reassured to see the Police armed for the simple reason I can't remember the last time I saw a bobby on the beat.

By all means protect obvious targets, like airports, but what's the point of giving every Policeman a gun? I'd rather see the money spent on getting more Police presence out on the streets.
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I agree with that. Police on the streets are a deterrent to crime, currently our Police are more of a reactionary force that are called out when a crime has been committed in most cases. I suppose the current attack in London was in one of the areas like Airports where the Police are a visible deterrent though.
 
Fish said:
Yes, I knew plenty who were excellent with rifles and overall very good service personnel but struggled with a side arm.

drawing a side arm is much more of a conscious decision than drawing a taser, plus, going into a close quarter situation (house) with a side arm drawn takes a lot of training and some officers just won't pass that test, so to arm them all could lead to many errors in judgement, they didn't join to be put in that situation, so its another vote against arming all officers imo.
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I know I keep banging on about other European Police forces but I still find it difficult to understand how they can be armed and have these operational problems. Can you explain please Fish?
 
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SocketRocket said:
Whats it got to do with you, You aren't Fish, I'm not asking you for an answer. We have established we don't agree on this so as far as I am concerned I have nothing else to discuss with you and I would suggest you take the same view, that is unless you just want to just argue about something?
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So that would be a "no" then.

I would suggest that if you want a one to one conversation with Fish, then take it to PM. As this is a public forum you must accept that others might have an opinion or questions as well as you.
 
SocketRocket said:
Whats it got to do with you, You aren't Fish, I'm not asking you for an answer. We have established we don't agree on this so as far as I am concerned I have nothing else to discuss with you and I would suggest you take the same view, that is unless you just want to just argue about something?
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Sorry it's a public forum - if you want to have personal conversations then have them across private messages. If you post something that I would like to reply to then I will - and I have done throughout this thread respectfully.

But again I see you have avoided the hard questions that challenge your opinion.
 
SocketRocket said:
I know I keep banging on about other European Police forces but I still find it difficult to understand how they can be armed and have these operational problems. Can you explain please Fish?
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So you want to effectively train all the existing officers so they can/must carry side arms, even though they were never selected on that basis, but what do we do with all the officers that fail that test?

All the European officers that you constantly go on about were obviously trained from their basic selection process so you can't compare our current forces to them and/or their ability to use side arms imo.

Plus I've seen the actions, very poor aggressive actions of European officers first hand, so again, I don't think you can compare what are very different cultures, our police are extremely professional in the main and pretty approachable, I don't think the Europeans are imo.
 
SocketRocket said:
I know I keep banging on about other European Police forces but I still find it difficult to understand how they can be armed and have these operational problems. Can you explain please Fish?
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Mate,
I think but i am not 100% sure (i will find out though), but there selection process would be different to ours at the moment.
One of the main issues for us would be the extra training, we already struggle to cover officers having to go and do regular refresher courses on things like tazer, driving etc.
The other issue would be what happens to officers that don't want to carry a firearm or are not deemed suitable to do this?
In my own personal opinion, i believe the way forward is to increase the armed response units, i know that is what we are doing . Is it enough? I honestly do not know.
 
Pants said:
So that would be a "no" then.

I would suggest that if you want a one to one conversation with Fish, then take it to PM. As this is a public forum you must accept that others might have an opinion or questions as well as you.
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I dont have to discuss it with them though.
 
Fish said:
So you want to effectively train all the existing officers so they can/must carry side arms, even though they were never selected on that basis, but what do we do with all the officers that fail that test?

All the European officers that you constantly go on about were obviously trained from their basic selection process so you can't compare our current forces to them and/or their ability to use side arms imo.

Plus I've seen the actions, very poor aggressive actions of European officers first hand, so again, I don't think you can compare what are very different cultures, our police are extremely professional in the main and pretty approachable, I don't think the Europeans are imo.
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OK, thanks.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Sorry it's a public forum - if you want to have personal conversations then have them across private messages. If you post something that I would like to reply to then I will - and I have done throughout this thread respectfully.

But again I see you have avoided the hard questions that challenge your opinion.
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OK, it's a members Forum and as such I'm just not interested in discussing it further with you. You have already made your view clear, I understand it and see no need to discuss it with you further.
 
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Midnight said:
Mate,
I think but i am not 100% sure (i will find out though), but there selection process would be different to ours at the moment.
One of the main issues for us would be the extra training, we already struggle to cover officers having to go and do regular refresher courses on things like tazer, driving etc.
The other issue would be what happens to officers that don't want to carry a firearm or are not deemed suitable to do this?
In my own personal opinion, i believe the way forward is to increase the armed response units, i know that is what we are doing . Is it enough? I honestly do not know.
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OK, thanks for your view. I guess it will only poke the hornets nest if I were to say that other countries don't seem to have these problems.
 
Midnight said:
Mate,
I think but i am not 100% sure (i will find out though), but there selection process would be different to ours at the moment.
One of the main issues for us would be the extra training, we already struggle to cover officers having to go and do regular refresher courses on things like tazer, driving etc.
The other issue would be what happens to officers that don't want to carry a firearm or are not deemed suitable to do this?
In my own personal opinion, i believe the way forward is to increase the armed response units, i know that is what we are doing . Is it enough? I honestly do not know.
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Have they done another survey since the mid 00's to see how the police feel about being armed - they said on the radio it was about 87% of them that didn't want to be armed ?
 
SocketRocket said:
OK, thanks for your view. I guess it will only poke the hornets nest if I were to say that other countries don't seem to have these problems.
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It probably would mate 😁😁.
What would be interesting, would be to find out what problems they had/didn't when they made the decision to arm all officers. I would hope that those higher up than me would know the answers to that as there is a lot of collaboration on various items with forces all over the world.
 
SocketRocket said:
OK, it's a members Forum and as such I'm just not interested in discussing it further with you. You have already made your view clear, I understand it and see no need to discuss it with you further.
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Then for someone who appears to be a smart person the simple answer for you is that anyone you don't want to answer or maybe you can't because the question is too tough - don't respond , meet it with silence but just because you post towards SILH and others in the EU threads with a high and almighty attitude doesn't mean you can do it on every thread.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Have they done another survey since the mid 00's to see how the police feel about being armed - they said on the radio it was about 87% of them that didn't want to be armed ?
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To be honest Phil, i can not remember , i am in tonight so will ask (if i get time.)
 
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