Ask the experts - title or concept flaw?

[GreiginFife]

Not wanting to hijack Bob's excellent advice thread that is descending into a debate on the purpose/scope of the ATE section of the forum.
So, is it the title or the concept (or neither) that is flawed?

There is a strength of feeling that no one but qualified people should be answering the questions. Is that right?
First of all, how do we define the Expert in question? What is it that constitutes that expertise? Qualifications? Paperwork?


I have always been of the belief that you do not have to be a total subject matter expert to know things. No doubt being a complete SME is hugely beneficial but I how many of you can change a plug yet are not electricians? Can make a roast chicken for dinner yet are no Jamie Oliver?

I posted in another threat about mechanics, I am not a qualified mechanic but can strip and rebuild an engine with no problem - build project cars from parts that aren't factory for that make/model and get them passed by VOSA (crowning achievement is my 3.2 litre V6 Mk4 Astra, not mechanical part on that car that was there out of the factory) Should I not be doing this as I am not qualified?

Debate at will should you wish.

 

[JustOne]

There used to be some pros posting there as 'provided' by Golf Monthly.

In total they posted about 5 things.

 

[GreiginFife]

There used to be some pros posting there as 'provided' by Golf Monthly.

In total they posted about 5 things.

That's not hugely helpful, would have been great if it worked. My point though is, if you know something should you not share it if you are not qualified to do so?

 

[GreiginFife]

Mods at it again, how is this website feedback? It's a topic to debate to decide whether it would be a point worth feeding back...

So lets put it in the proverbial "backwater" of the forum

 

[Imurg]

But it is about the forum/website so it's in the right place.....

Anyway, I was under the impression that the ATE section was going to be manned by "Experts" although if anyone had decent, quality information on a particular subject then they would be welcome to post.

I'm not much of an expert on anything so I don't often post there. I have a read of it all though.....

 

[JustOne]

Yes it would have been great if it had worked however golf instruction came under major scruitiny about 3/4 years ago when it was discovered that most pros (not all) were teaching the wrong ballflight laws and their instruction was actually WRONG. Kinda kicked the back end out of online instruction.

The ones that WERE posting here from GM simply didn't have the time to respond to many posts (not as forum addicted as many on here) and what they did post was 'somewhat' debatable.

A golf qualification (ask your own pro this) doesn't really contain anything about teaching... only the very, very basics, the kinda stuff you need to get a 28 h/capper to hit the ball.

My pro got qualified as he knew how to teach someone a long bunker shot and two things that might help cure a slice :thup: The PGA qualification is more about setting up your own business, running one, or being an assistant until your club pro dies

 

[Snelly]

One of the best things about this forum is being given the opportunity to see 22 handicappers dispense pearls of wisdom on the fundamentals of the golf swing. I am not being sarcastic. I honestly love it.

The posts on ball flight laws are a bit daft though. I find them very annoying as I am sure they offer little help to anyone in real terms.

Same for stack and tilt. It is not a panacea for the game of golf.


Not having a go James! Just a difference of approach between you and I and am really looking forward to seeing you tomorrow.

 

[bobmac]

I think most people who have been on the forum for a while know who to listen to and who may be just guessing.
It's the newbies I feel sorry for.
They dont know who to follow and who to ignore.

Everyone who posts in the ATE (thinking food again) are undoubtedly trying to help, but just sometimes, it may do more to confuse the poster.

If anything was to change I'd would suggest the following...
If you want to have an open discussion about your swing vid, post it in the lounge.
If you want more of an expert opinion then post in the ATE.
That way, those who may not be experts in swing mechanics can still help others by sharing their experiences on "what works for me" type of posts but in the lounge.

 

[GreiginFife]

One of the best things about this forum is being given the opportunity to see 22 handicappers dispense pearls of wisdom on the fundamentals of the golf swing. I am not being sarcastic. I honestly love it.

Greiginfife - hope this does not appall you!

Not a bit. If that's what floats yer boat then more power to you.

 

[GreiginFife]

I think most people who have been on the forum for a while know who to listen to and who may be just guessing.
It's the newbies I feel sorry for.
They dont know who to follow and who to ignore.

Everyone who posts in the ATE (thinking food again) are undoubtedly trying to help, but just sometimes, it may do more to confuse the poster.

If anything was to change I'd would suggest the following...
If you want to have an open discussion about your swing vid, post it in the lounge.
If you want more of an expert opinion then post in the ATE.
That way, those who may not be experts in swing mechanics can still help others by sharing their experiences on "what works for me" type of posts but in the lounge.

This is exactly the detail I was looking at getting at via forum opinion. Snelly makes a good point about the "science" if it's not clear or helpful.
Seems to me that the concept had a great founding ideal but not followed through in execution and practice.

 

[JustOne]

Not having a go James! Just a difference of approach between you and I and am really looking forward to seeing you tomorrow.

Likewise Dave... (and I'd never be offended by your posts)


I did see your post in the experts section pertaining to 'the hooks'....

The most likely answer is you're not fully completing your backswing and hitting from the top. Turn properly, more that usual even. It will go away.

does that mean YOU are qualified to post in there? Is your h/cap low enough to do so?

 

[Snelly]

Me? I know nowt! I haven't even got a handicap! Or a club!

I am far, far from qualified. I am being sincere when I say that I have absolutely no idea what the ball flight laws are be they new or old. I used to be a bit of a student of the swing though and basically think that everyone should try and copy Sam Snead if they can. Apart from his side saddle putting of course.

You know me - golf is a simple game and all that. Find it, hit it. Get on with it. Blah blah blah. Same old record from me every time.

That said, if I don't have a full shoulder turn, it maximises my chances of a pull hook. Not sure why, it just does. If I snap hook then this is what I change and the snap hook goes away. This nugget of uselessness may be of help to some but I doubt it as in general terms, correcting golf swings over the web is as easy as plaiting sawdust.

 

[JustOne]

I wasn't... 'having a go'... Dave,

There is an arguement being put forward (from what I gather) to say that people should be properly qualified to post in there, not sure whether not even having an official h/cap helps along those lines

I happen to think that your thoughts are perfectly valid and SHOULD be posted in the experts section where applicable...and if your h/cap should somehow rise to 22 or above I'm sure your knowledge of the swing won't be affected, however you WILL have to frequently tell people that you 'used' to play off 1.4 just to have any validity to your posts

 

[User20205]

it should be called ask Bob ! :thup: in fact to make up his 25 hours he should charge a retainer! either that or video lessons.


any other advice on there should carry some small print that states * the above information is the option of the poster and in no way should be regarded as fact.

Especially relevant when someone off 22 thinks S&T will lead to a double digit reduction in handicap, or wants to discuss hitting a low raking hook around a large tree on demand

(* please regard the disclaimer above)

 

[JustOne]

Especially relevant when someone off 22 thinks S&T will lead to a double digit reduction in handicap

(* please regard the disclaimer above)

I daren't say a 28 h/capper might one day get to 18 ... or indeed a 22 h/capper to 12.

**(This is a disclaimer..... I know NOTHING!)**

 

[User20205]

probably. just in my humble opinion I think you need to understand a swing/your swing before you go around stacking & a tilting (just picking on this as it's the only example I can think of. don't get a persecution complex )

It would probably help if you'd stagnated in low teens/high single figs, off 28 you're really better off understanding grip/stance etc.

I don't want to be accused of going off topic, so maybe it should be called 'ask Bob to cure your slice/shank....or James if you want a quick fix for insomnia ***

 

[Piece]

Not wanting to hijack Bob's excellent advice thread that is descending into a debate on the purpose/scope of the ATE section of the forum.
So, is it the title or the concept (or neither) that is flawed?

There is a strength of feeling that no one but qualified people should be answering the questions. Is that right?
First of all, how do we define the Expert in question? What is it that constitutes that expertise? Qualifications? Paperwork?
.

Firstly, I think it would be a real shame if ATE disappeared and was simply replaced by 'see your pro' as intimated by some on here. Granted, there is some duff information (IMO) on there, but in the end, people are looking for some advice and tips to help their game. For a healthy forum, you need input and contribution, so having people putting time and effort to contribute and offer their thoughts, even if wrong in the mind of some, is good to see.

I certainly look a lot at this part of the forum and occasionally post. Am I an expert or qualified? Definitely not, but there are some parts I know I know better than some pros, therefore I feel I can confidently post and share the knowledge. After all, this should be about sharing to help improve everyone's game. Remember that not one person has all the answers and you only have to look in GM to see that there are different ways of playing a particular type of shot, dependent on what pro or even touring pro is offering the advice. For example, the correct way to hit a draw (new v old flight laws), the method for chipping (hands forward or hands neutral), what starts the downswing, etc. etc.

Please don't discourage people from posting on ATE because they aren't PGA qualified or a scratch handicap. We all have something to contribute in some form or another; surely it's preferable that people post and are corrected by debate, rather than have a dead-end sub forum where no one posts for fear of ridicule or lack of the required knowledge. We all need to learn, and the best learning comes from education.

 

[Ethan]

Some pros may be experts in the golf swing, although there are a range of opinions and methods, but know sod all about shafts, for example. I have heard pros say things about shafts that are simply (and demonstrably) wrong. Even more so for low handicappers, some of whom play well but don't know much about their equipment.

I see no reason to change this section. Let people judge the advice they receive based on the quantity and quality of information put forward as well as the source.

 

[GreiginFife]

Firstly, I think it would be a real shame if ATE disappeared and was simply replaced by 'see your pro' as intimated by some on here. Granted, there is some duff information (IMO) on there, but in the end, people are looking for some advice and tips to help their game. For a healthy forum, you need input and contribution, so having people putting time and effort to contribute and offer their thoughts, even if wrong in the mind of some, is good to see.

I certainly look a lot at this part of the forum and occasionally post. Am I an expert or qualified? Definitely not, but there are some parts I know I know better than some pros, therefore I feel I can confidently post and share the knowledge. After all, this should be about sharing to help improve everyone's game. Remember that not one person has all the answers and you only have to look in GM to see that there are different ways of playing a particular type of shot, dependent on what pro or even touring pro is offering the advice. For example, the correct way to hit a draw (new v old flight laws), the method for chipping (hands forward or hands neutral), what starts the downswing, etc. etc.

Please don't discourage people from posting on ATE because they aren't PGA qualified or a scratch handicap. We all have something to contribute in some form or another; surely it's preferable that people post and are corrected by debate, rather than have a dead-end sub forum where no one posts for fear of ridicule or lack of the required knowledge. We all need to learn, and the best learning comes from education.

I note that you choose to only quote a small part of what I said. What I then go on to say is that I believe that you DO NOT need to be an expert to know something (quoting changing a plug as an example of this).
I don't want to see this section of the forum go nor discourage it's use, far from it, my post was about questioning the motives of those that reckon average club golfers are in no position to offer advice or answer a question.
Wolfman has come up with a good idea on a separate thread.

 

[Piece]

I note that you choose to only quote a small part of what I said. What I then go on to say is that I believe that you DO NOT need to be an expert to know something (quoting changing a plug as an example of this).
I don't want to see this section of the forum go nor discourage it's use, far from it, my post was about questioning the motives of those that reckon average club golfers are in no position to offer advice or answer a question.
Wolfman has come up with a good idea on a separate thread.

I wasn't deliberately part-quoting or trying to disagree. In fact, I was agreeing and was taking up your offer to "debate at will should you wish" by offering my view.